- TF-A - lists.trustedfirmware.org

TF-A] CANCELLED: TF-A Tech Forum Agenda @ Thr 17th June 2021 16:00-1700 BST

by Joanna Farley

Apologies we don't have any topics to present this week so I am cancelling the TF-A Tech forum for 17th June 2021. We do however we have an exciting topic coming up for Thursday 1st July 2021 which we will share more about nearer the time. In addition I’ll also like to promote this separate Linaro and Arm CCA Tech Event - Deep dive into Arm Confidential Compute Architecture the details of which can be found here https://www.linaro.org/events/linaro-and-arm-cca-tech-day-deep-dive-into-ar… Registration is free for this event which will begin at 14:00 UTC on June 23rd . Thanks all. Joanna

4 years

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Canceled event with note: TF-A Tech Forum @ Thu Jun 17, 2021 4pm - 5pm (BST) (tf-a@lists.trustedfirmware.org)

by joanna.farley＠arm.com

This event has been canceled with this note: "Apologies we don't have any topics to present this week so I am cancelling the Tech forum for 17th June 2021 however we have an exciting topic coming up for Thursday 1st July 2021 which we will share near the time." Title: TF-A Tech Forum We run an open technical forum call for anyone to participate and it is not restricted to Trusted Firmware project members. It will operate under the guidance of the TF TSC. Feel free to forward this invite to colleagues. Invites are via the TF-A mailing list and also published on the Trusted Firmware website. Details are here: https://www.trustedfirmware.org/meetings/tf-a-technical-forum/Tr… Firmware is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.Join Zoom Meetinghttps://zoom.us/j/9159704974Meeting ID: 915 970 4974One tap mobile+16465588656,,9159704974# US (New York)+16699009128,,9159704974# US (San Jose)Dial by your location        +1 646 558 8656 US (New York)        +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose)        877 853 5247 US Toll-free        888 788 0099 US Toll-freeMeeting ID: 915 970 4974Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/ad27hc6t7h   When: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4pm – 5pm United Kingdom Time Calendar: tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org Who: * Bill Fletcher - creator * marek.bykowski(a)gmail.com * okash.khawaja(a)gmail.com * tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org Invitation from Google Calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ You are receiving this courtesy email at the account tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org because you are an attendee of this event. To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline this event. Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for your entire calendar. Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipient to send a response to the organizer and be added to the guest list, or invite others regardless of their own invitation status, or to modify your RSVP. Learn more at https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/37135#forwarding

4 years

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SP manifest: avoid manual updates to "entrypoint-offset"

by Varun Wadekar

Hello, We (Nico/Raghu) have been implementing SEL0 partitions for Tegra platforms and recently hit an issue, where the "entrypoint-offset" field of the SP manifest [1] cannot cope with increasing manifest blobs. The way the SP manifest is created today, the "entrypoint-offset" field is set to a value *statically* by the implementer. Down the line if the manifest grows past the value written in the "entrypoint-offset", we must manually update it. This needs to be fixed. We believe there is an opportunity to upgrade the sptool to handle this situation during SP package creation, where sptool calculates the manifest size and bumps the "entrypoint-offset" past the end of the manifest. There are other ways of patching the SP manifest at runtime, but they seem sub-optimal. Please let me know if there are other ideas to solve this problem. I will post a patch to update the sptool shortly but wanted to get the ball rolling. Cheers. [1] 14. FF-A manifest binding to device tree - Trusted Firmware-A documentation<https://trustedfirmware-a.readthedocs.io/en/latest/components/ffa-manifest-…>

4 years

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Test Post

by Arjun Khare

Test (sorry for the noise)

4 years

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Re: [TF-A] Support for Kinibi in ATF/SPMD - linear ID

by Achin Gupta

Hi Francois, The blobs are passed in memory only when the primary core boots. The linear id is required when both primaries and secondaries boot. Secondly, the linear id is used to reference per-cpu structures in memory during very early initialisation. Putting the linear id in a memory structure would either require a per-cpu structure (chicken and egg) or a read-only global structure (to avoid complicated locks with the MMU turned off). It seems to me that the linear id should be passed in an unused register specified by the partition manifest. Passing it in the blob list seems a bit counter intuitive to me but happy to understand your thoughts better. cheers, Achin ________________________________ From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf of François Ozog via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Sent: 14 June 2021 16:29 To: Lukas Hanel <lukas.hanel(a)trustonic.com> Cc: tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Support for Kinibi in ATF/SPMD - linear ID This looks like a good candidate for the bloblist discussion we have on other mail thread. Why not aggregating "topology" metadata in a block rather than passing "random" information elements in registers? On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 at 13:57, Lukas Hanel via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org<mailto:tf-a@lists.trustedfirmware.org>> wrote: Hi, in this PR, I propose a first change to the SPMD to better support Kinibi, the TEE from Trustonic. https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/+/10235 The idea here is to pass the core linear id in the x3 register in the boot of secondary cores. In the past, the Kinibi SPD was not public and so some requirements to TF-A were not visible to the wider community. For Kinibi, one binary should run on a multitude of platforms. For that reason, many platform-specific settings are shared by TF-A with Kinibi: at boot, in registers and in a boot datastructure, and at runtime. In the line of work of making Kinibi compatible with FFA APIs, I moved some bits from the Kinibi SPD to the SPMD. Instead of sharing such patches only with our customers, we would like to upstream the patches to the generic code. For this particular patch, it is really simple and changes the interface SPMD-to-SPMC in a somewhat adhoc manner. There is some discussion within ARM to standardize such behavior and to propose configuration options, i.e. within a manifest. That way, you could change what register the linear id, if at all, should be transferred in. A first tour of the CI showed that there seem to be no consequences to hafnium and optee. I guess, question to the mailing list, is there something that this patch breaks? Greetings, Lukas Trustonic SAS - 535 route de Lucioles, Les Aqueducs Batiment 2, Sophia Antipolis 06560 Valbonne, France – SAS au capital de 3 038 000€ - RCS Grasse – SIRET 480 011 998 00055 - TVA intracommunautaire : FR02 480 011 998 -- TF-A mailing list TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org<mailto:TF-A@lists.trustedfirmware.org> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a -- [https://drive.google.com/a/linaro.org/uc?id=0BxTAygkus3RgQVhuNHMwUi1mYWc&ex…] François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group T: +33.67221.6485 francois.ozog(a)linaro.org<mailto:francois.ozog@linaro.org> | Skype: ffozog

4 years

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Re: [TF-A] Support for Kinibi in ATF/SPMD - linear ID

by François Ozog

This looks like a good candidate for the bloblist discussion we have on other mail thread. Why not aggregating "topology" metadata in a block rather than passing "random" information elements in registers? On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 at 13:57, Lukas Hanel via TF-A < tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > Hi, > > in this PR, I propose a first change to the SPMD to better support Kinibi, > the TEE from Trustonic. > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/+/10235 > > The idea here is to pass the core linear id in the x3 register in the boot > of secondary cores. > > In the past, the Kinibi SPD was not public and so some requirements to > TF-A were not visible to the wider community. > For Kinibi, one binary should run on a multitude of platforms. > For that reason, many platform-specific settings are shared by TF-A with > Kinibi: at boot, in registers and in a boot datastructure, and at runtime. > > In the line of work of making Kinibi compatible with FFA APIs, I moved > some bits from the Kinibi SPD to the SPMD. > Instead of sharing such patches only with our customers, we would like to > upstream the patches to the generic code. > > For this particular patch, it is really simple and changes the interface > SPMD-to-SPMC in a somewhat adhoc manner. > There is some discussion within ARM to standardize such behavior and to > propose configuration options, i.e. within a manifest. > That way, you could change what register the linear id, if at all, should > be transferred in. > > A first tour of the CI showed that there seem to be no consequences to > hafnium and optee. > I guess, question to the mailing list, is there something that this patch > breaks? > > Greetings, > Lukas > > > Trustonic SAS - 535 route de Lucioles, Les Aqueducs Batiment 2, Sophia > Antipolis 06560 Valbonne, France – SAS au capital de 3 038 000€ - RCS > Grasse – SIRET 480 011 998 00055 - TVA intracommunautaire : FR02 480 011 998 > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group* T: +33.67221.6485 francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog

4 years

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Support for Kinibi in ATF/SPMD - linear ID

by Lukas Hanel

Hi, in this PR, I propose a first change to the SPMD to better support Kinibi, the TEE from Trustonic. https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/+/10235 The idea here is to pass the core linear id in the x3 register in the boot of secondary cores. In the past, the Kinibi SPD was not public and so some requirements to TF-A were not visible to the wider community. For Kinibi, one binary should run on a multitude of platforms. For that reason, many platform-specific settings are shared by TF-A with Kinibi: at boot, in registers and in a boot datastructure, and at runtime. In the line of work of making Kinibi compatible with FFA APIs, I moved some bits from the Kinibi SPD to the SPMD. Instead of sharing such patches only with our customers, we would like to upstream the patches to the generic code. For this particular patch, it is really simple and changes the interface SPMD-to-SPMC in a somewhat adhoc manner. There is some discussion within ARM to standardize such behavior and to propose configuration options, i.e. within a manifest. That way, you could change what register the linear id, if at all, should be transferred in. A first tour of the CI showed that there seem to be no consequences to hafnium and optee. I guess, question to the mailing list, is there something that this patch breaks? Greetings, Lukas Trustonic SAS - 535 route de Lucioles, Les Aqueducs Batiment 2, Sophia Antipolis 06560 Valbonne, France - SAS au capital de 3 038 000EUR - RCS Grasse - SIRET 480 011 998 00055 - TVA intracommunautaire : FR02 480 011 998

4 years

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Re: [TF-A] please fix incomplete distclean Makefile target

by Manish Pandey2

Hi, Can you try below steps, try with fresh pull? 1. Login with your github account on https://review.trustedfirmware.org/admin/repos/TF-A%2Ftrusted-firmware-a 2. git clone "ssh://<user>@review.trustedfirmware.org:29418/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a 3. git push <remote-name> HEAD:refs/for/integration 4. While pushing if it complains about git hooks, run scp -p -P 29418 <user>@review.trustedfirmware.org:hooks/commit-msg "trusted-firmware-a/.git/hooks/" and amend your commit (it will give you this hint) ________________________________ From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf of Nicolas Boulenguez via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Sent: 03 April 2021 13:02 To: raghu.ncstate(a)icloud.com <raghu.ncstate(a)icloud.com> Cc: tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; 'Benjamin Copeland' <ben.copeland(a)linaro.org> Subject: Re: [TF-A] please fix incomplete distclean Makefile target raghu.ncstate(a)icloud.com: > Are you pushing ssh://<username>@review.trustedfirmware.org:29418/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a HEAD:refs/for/integration? > Note that 29418 port. That tripped me up initially. It is not clear from your earlier emails where you cloned from(review.trustedfirmware.org or git.trustedfirmware.org). [α] links to [β] which recommends # git clone "https://review.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a" I had an existing repository (most contributors probably do) and used 'git add remote' and 'git fetch' instead. [α] recommends # git push <remote-name> HEAD:refs/for/integration%<topic-branch> As expected, the host requires a password. # git push ssh://<user>@review.trustedfirmware.org:29418/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a HEAD:refs/for/integration? -> fatal: invalid refspec 'HEAD:refs/for/integration?' Anyhow, the host would require an SSH key. [α] https://developer.trustedfirmware.org/w/tf_a/gerrit-getting-started/ [β] https://review.trustedfirmware.org/admin/repos/TF-A%2Ftrusted-firmware-a -- TF-A mailing list TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a

4 years

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Re: [TF-A] issue with vsnprintf() and unsigned_num_print()

by Varun Wadekar

HI Hiren, Can you please add more color to “even if I provide large enough string to hold the number, it does not print it”? Are you saying that the library prints a partial value? If the calculation is off by 1, I assume, the library should at least print a partial value. -Varun From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> On Behalf Of Hiren Mehta via TF-A Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:41 AM To: tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org Subject: [TF-A] issue with vsnprintf() and unsigned_num_print() External email: Use caution opening links or attachments Hi All, We are using the snprintf() (which uses vsnprintf() and unsigned_num_print()) from libc of ATF version 2.4 and running into an issue for printing a number into a string where even if I provide large enough string to hold the number, it does not print it. I don't see that issue with it when I try to print a string using the same snprintf(). I understand that, as per the documentation use of snprintf is "banned or discouraged". But for the use case, that we are using for, it is safe enough to use it assuming that it does it what it is supposed to do. I am not sure if this is a known bug or what, but upon a further inspection, I found that there seems be a small bug in the unsigned_num_print() for one of the 'if' condition given below which is causing the issue in terms of calculating the available space in the string. if (*chars_printed < n) { .... do the prinring.... } I believe it is supposed to be if (*chars_printed <= n) { ----------------->> Notice '<=' instead of '<' } Any comment on whether this is on purpose or really a small bug? The calling routine (vsnprintf) is already reducing 'n' by 1 for the terminating null character. Thank you very much for your support. -hiren

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] TF-A Tech Forum Agenda @ Thr 3rd June 2021 16:00-1700 BST

by François Ozog

Hi food for thought for tomorrow's call: Passing information on what is plugged into the DIMM slots may not be as straightforward as it sounds. You can plug pure DRAM, NVDIMMs or pure flash (from Diablo technologies, acquired by RAMBus in 2019). The pure flash is a module where there is a few MB as bounce buffers to flash located on the DIMM itself. The largest element was 1TB on a single DIMM. So passing a C structure that details the size of the DIMM fails to fully describe NVDIMM and Flash on DIMM. Those two things required complex Passing a DT fragment that describes the plugged module is generic and can describe both the bounce buffers and the registers needed to access the flash on DIMM. In the future you may find associative memory or whatever AI based modules. Bottom line, using DT fragment to describe memory is flexible for the three existing cases and future proof. The document shows that for a 2 DIMM representation and associated SPDs, the additional cost is 88 bytes. 32 are fixed cost, 56 are somewhat name size dependent and some related to FDT format. There is no need for a full libfdt to actually produce that serialized data on a hob. So in my view, the benefit of having an alignment, version and evolution proof structure that comes with DT fragment by far exceeds the cost of a few bytes saved, even in the context of SRAM size. Cheers FF On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 17:33, Joanna Farley via TF-A < tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > > > The next TF-A Tech Forum is scheduled for Thu 3rd June 2021 16:00 – 17:00 > (BST). > > > > Agenda: > > - Discussion Session: Static and Dynamic Information Handling in TF-A > (Session 2) > - Lead by Manish Pandy and Madhukar Pappireddy > - On tech forum this week, we would like to continue discussions on > HOB list design. > - The topics which we would like to cover is > 1. Evaluate different proposals of passing information through > boot phases. > 2. If we don't get an agreement on one solution fit for all then > we would try to get consensus for Infra segment platform(to solve original > problem mentioned by Harb) > 3. Try to get an agreement on size of tags and how "hybrid and > tag only" HOB list can co-exist together? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Joanna > > > > > *You have been invited to the following event.* TF-A Tech Forum > > *more details » > <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cTJrM…>* > > > > We run an open technical forum call for anyone to participate and it is > not restricted to Trusted Firmware project members. It will operate under > the guidance of the TF TSC. > > > > Feel free to forward this invite to colleagues. Invites are via the TF-A > mailing list and also published on the Trusted Firmware website. Details > are here: https://www.trustedfirmware.org/meetings/tf-a-technical-forum/ > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.trustedfirmware.org%2Fmeetin…> > > > > Trusted Firmware is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. > > > > Join Zoom Meeting > > https://zoom.us/j/9159704974 > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fj%2F9159704974&sa=D&us…> > > > > Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > > > > One tap mobile > > +16465588656,,9159704974# US (New York) > > +16699009128,,9159704974# US (San Jose) > > > > Dial by your location > > +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) > > When > > Every 2 weeks from 16:00 to 17:00 on Thursday United Kingdom Time > > Calendar > > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > Who > > • > > Bill Fletcher- creator > > • > > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) > > 877 853 5247 US Toll-free > > 888 788 0099 US Toll-free > > Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > > Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/ad27hc6t7h > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fu%2Fad27hc6t7h&sa=D&us…> > > > > > Going (tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org)? All events in this series: * > Yes > <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cT…>** > - **Maybe > <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cT…>** > - **No > <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cT…>* > more options » > <https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cTJrM…> > > Invitation from Google Calendar <https://www.google.com/calendar/> > > You are receiving this courtesy email at the account > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org because you are an attendee of this event. > > To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline this event. > Alternatively, you can sign up for a Google Account at > https://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings > for your entire calendar. > > Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipient to send a response to > the organiser and be added to the guest list, invite others regardless of > their own invitation status or to modify your RSVP. Learn more > <https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/37135#forwarding>. > > > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group* T: +33.67221.6485 francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog

4 years, 1 month

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TF-A Tech Forum Agenda @ Thr 3rd June 2021 16:00-1700 BST

by Joanna Farley

Hi All, The next TF-A Tech Forum is scheduled for Thu 3rd June 2021 16:00 – 17:00 (BST). Agenda: * Discussion Session: Static and Dynamic Information Handling in TF-A (Session 2) * Lead by Manish Pandy and Madhukar Pappireddy * On tech forum this week, we would like to continue discussions on HOB list design. * The topics which we would like to cover is * Evaluate different proposals of passing information through boot phases. * If we don't get an agreement on one solution fit for all then we would try to get consensus for Infra segment platform(to solve original problem mentioned by Harb) * Try to get an agreement on size of tags and how "hybrid and tag only" HOB list can co-exist together? Thanks Joanna You have been invited to the following event. TF-A Tech Forum more details »<https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cTJrM…> We run an open technical forum call for anyone to participate and it is not restricted to Trusted Firmware project members. It will operate under the guidance of the TF TSC. Feel free to forward this invite to colleagues. Invites are via the TF-A mailing list and also published on the Trusted Firmware website. Details are here: https://www.trustedfirmware.org/meetings/tf-a-technical-forum/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.trustedfirmware.org%2Fmeetin…> Trusted Firmware is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Join Zoom Meeting https://zoom.us/j/9159704974<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fj%2F9159704974&sa=D&us…> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 One tap mobile +16465588656,,9159704974# US (New York) +16699009128,,9159704974# US (San Jose) Dial by your location +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) When Every 2 weeks from 16:00 to 17:00 on Thursday United Kingdom Time Calendar tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org Who • Bill Fletcher- creator • tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) 877 853 5247 US Toll-free 888 788 0099 US Toll-free Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/ad27hc6t7h<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fzoom.us%2Fu%2Fad27hc6t7h&sa=D&us…> Going (tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org)? All events in this series: Yes<https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cT…> - Maybe<https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cT…> - No<https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cT…> more options »<https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=NWlub3Ewdm1tMmk1cTJrM…> Invitation from Google Calendar<https://www.google.com/calendar/> You are receiving this courtesy email at the account tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org because you are an attendee of this event. To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline this event. Alternatively, you can sign up for a Google Account at https://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for your entire calendar. Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipient to send a response to the organiser and be added to the guest list, invite others regardless of their own invitation status or to modify your RSVP. Learn more<https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/37135#forwarding>.

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Linux kernel set the hypervisor vector table through ATF

by Marc Zyngier

On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 14:34:05 +0100, Dongjiu Geng <gengdongjiu1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Marc Zyngier <maz(a)kernel.org> 于2021年6月1日周二下午6:09写道： > > > > On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:53:49 +0100, > > Dongjiu Geng <gengdongjiu1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Mark Rutland <mark.rutland(a)arm.com> 于2021年6月1日周二下午5:19写道： > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 05:26:51PM +0800, Dongjiu Geng wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > when Linux kernel boot from EL1, there is no method to let > > > > > kernel to enter EL2 to enable hypervisor. so I want to add an SMC > > > > > interface between kernel and EL3 ATF to let kernel can set the > > > > > hypervisor vector table, then can enter EL2 to enable hypervisor, as > > > > > shown in [1]. > > > > > Do you agree? Otherwise there is no method to enter EL2 hypervisor > > > > > when kernel boot from EL1, because the hypervisor vector > > > > > table(vbar_el2) is unknown. > > > > > > > > The kernel already supported being booted at EL2, where it will install > > > > itself as the hypervisor (and will drop to EL1 if required). EL2 is the > > > > preferred boot mode, as we document in: > > > > > > > > https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/arm64/booting.html > > > > > > > > ... where we say: > > > > > > > > | The CPU must be in either EL2 (RECOMMENDED in order to have access to > > > > | the virtualisation extensions) or non-secure EL1. > > > > > > > > We *strongly* prefer this over adding new ABIs to transition from EL1 to > > > > EL2. Please boot the kernel at EL2 if you want to use KVM. > > > > > > Thanks for the answer. > > > If use KVM, it should boot from EL2. But if the hypervisor is not > > > KVM, such as Jailhouse hypervisor and some Chip manufacturer boot the > > > host kernel from EL1(not follow above rule), it seems there is not way > > > to enter the Jailhouse hypervisor. > > > > We only deal with two cases: > > - either the kernel uses its own, built-in hypervisor: it boots at > > EL2, and installs itself. > > > > - or there is a pre-existing hypervisor, and the kernel boots at EL1. > > > > In the past, Jailhouse used the exact same entry points as KVM. What > > has changed? > > Jailhouse use the __hyp_stub_vectors vector table[1] in linux > kernel arch/arm64/kernel/hyp-stub.S to re-set his own's hypervisor > vector table, but if linux kernel is boot from EL1，it can not use the > entry points(__hyp_stub_vectors). I agree Linux kernel is recommended > boot from EL2, but some custer's boards not follow this rule. So Jailhouse doesn't have this problem when used as intended. > > [1]: > ENTRY(__hyp_stub_vectors) > ventry el2_sync_invalid // Synchronous EL2t > ventry el2_irq_invalid // IRQ EL2t > ventry el2_fiq_invalid // FIQ EL2t > ventry el2_error_invalid // Error EL2t > > ventry el2_sync_invalid // Synchronous EL2h > ventry el2_irq_invalid // IRQ EL2h > ventry el2_fiq_invalid // FIQ EL2h > ventry el2_error_invalid // Error EL2h > > ventry el1_sync // Synchronous 64-bit EL1 > ventry el1_irq_invalid // IRQ 64-bit EL1 > ventry el1_fiq_invalid // FIQ 64-bit EL1 > ventry el1_error_invalid // Error 64-bit EL1 > > ventry el1_sync_invalid // Synchronous 32-bit EL1 > ventry el1_irq_invalid // IRQ 32-bit EL1 > ventry el1_fiq_invalid // FIQ 32-bit EL1 > ventry el1_error_invalid // Error 32-bit EL1 > ENDPROC(__hyp_stub_vectors) > > > > > Finally, if you can change the firmware to install the EL2 vectors, > > you can also change it to enter the kernel at EL2. I suggest you do > > that instead. > > I agree with you, but needs to change customer‘s board, I will try to > discuess with customer. In both cases, you'll need to change your customer's firmware. It seems to me that there is no reason for the arm64 boot protocol to change and adopt weird, wonderful and proprietary privilege escalation methods. Thanks, M. -- Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Linux kernel set the hypervisor vector table through ATF

by Marc Zyngier

On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:53:49 +0100, Dongjiu Geng <gengdongjiu1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Mark Rutland <mark.rutland(a)arm.com> 于2021年6月1日周二下午5:19写道： > > > > On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 05:26:51PM +0800, Dongjiu Geng wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > when Linux kernel boot from EL1, there is no method to let > > > kernel to enter EL2 to enable hypervisor. so I want to add an SMC > > > interface between kernel and EL3 ATF to let kernel can set the > > > hypervisor vector table, then can enter EL2 to enable hypervisor, as > > > shown in [1]. > > > Do you agree? Otherwise there is no method to enter EL2 hypervisor > > > when kernel boot from EL1, because the hypervisor vector > > > table(vbar_el2) is unknown. > > > > The kernel already supported being booted at EL2, where it will install > > itself as the hypervisor (and will drop to EL1 if required). EL2 is the > > preferred boot mode, as we document in: > > > > https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/arm64/booting.html > > > > ... where we say: > > > > | The CPU must be in either EL2 (RECOMMENDED in order to have access to > > | the virtualisation extensions) or non-secure EL1. > > > > We *strongly* prefer this over adding new ABIs to transition from EL1 to > > EL2. Please boot the kernel at EL2 if you want to use KVM. > > Thanks for the answer. > If use KVM, it should boot from EL2. But if the hypervisor is not > KVM, such as Jailhouse hypervisor and some Chip manufacturer boot the > host kernel from EL1(not follow above rule), it seems there is not way > to enter the Jailhouse hypervisor. We only deal with two cases: - either the kernel uses its own, built-in hypervisor: it boots at EL2, and installs itself. - or there is a pre-existing hypervisor, and the kernel boots at EL1. In the past, Jailhouse used the exact same entry points as KVM. What has changed? Finally, if you can change the firmware to install the EL2 vectors, you can also change it to enter the kernel at EL2. I suggest you do that instead. Thanks, M. -- Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Linux kernel set the hypervisor vector table through ATF

by Mark Rutland

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 05:26:51PM +0800, Dongjiu Geng wrote: > Hi All, > when Linux kernel boot from EL1, there is no method to let > kernel to enter EL2 to enable hypervisor. so I want to add an SMC > interface between kernel and EL3 ATF to let kernel can set the > hypervisor vector table, then can enter EL2 to enable hypervisor, as > shown in [1]. > Do you agree? Otherwise there is no method to enter EL2 hypervisor > when kernel boot from EL1, because the hypervisor vector > table(vbar_el2) is unknown. The kernel already supported being booted at EL2, where it will install itself as the hypervisor (and will drop to EL1 if required). EL2 is the preferred boot mode, as we document in: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/arm64/booting.html ... where we say: | The CPU must be in either EL2 (RECOMMENDED in order to have access to | the virtualisation extensions) or non-secure EL1. We *strongly* prefer this over adding new ABIs to transition from EL1 to EL2. Please boot the kernel at EL2 if you want to use KVM. Thanks, Mark. > > > > [1]: > el1_sync: > cmp x0, #SMC_SET_VECTORS > b.ne 2f > msr vbar_el2, x1 > b 9f > > 2: cmp x0, #SMC_SOFT_RESTART > b.ne 3f > mov x0, x2 > mov x2, x4 > mov x4, x1 > mov x1, x3 > br x4 // no return > > 3: cmp x0, #SMC_RESET_VECTORS > beq 9f // Nothing to reset! > > ldr x0, =SMC_STUB_ERR > eret > > 9: mov x0, xzr > eret > ENDPROC(el1_sync) > > _______________________________________________ > linux-arm-kernel mailing list > linux-arm-kernel(a)lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel

4 years, 1 month

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issue with vsnprintf() and unsigned_num_print()

by Hiren Mehta

Hi All, We are using the snprintf() (which uses vsnprintf() and unsigned_num_print()) from libc of ATF version 2.4and running into an issue for printing a number into a string where even if I provide large enough string to hold the number, it does not print it. I don't see that issue with it when I try to print a string using the same snprintf().I understand that, as per the documentation use of snprintf is "banned or discouraged". But for the use case,that we are using for, it is safe enough to use it assuming that it does it what it is supposed to do. I am not sure if this is a known bug or what, but upon a further inspection, I found that there seems be a small bugin the unsigned_num_print() for one of the 'if' condition given below which is causing the issue in terms of calculatingthe available space in the string. if (*chars_printed < n) { .... do the prinring....} I believe it is supposed to be if (*chars_printed <= n) { ----------------->> Notice '<=' instead of '<' } Any comment on whether this is on purpose or really a small bug? The calling routine (vsnprintf) is already reducing 'n' by 1 for the terminating null character. Thank you very much for your support.-hiren

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] zynqmp: How to inform the bl33 about RAM reservation?

by Samuel Holland

On 4/19/21 11:11 AM, Jan Kiszka via TF-A wrote: > On 19.04.21 17:21, Michal Simek wrote: >> On 4/18/21 8:44 PM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>> when SPD or DEBUG is enabled, TF-A is moved to RAM on the zynqmp (as it >>> longer fits into OCM). U-Boot happens to avoid that region, but the >>> kernel's DTB has no reservation entry, and Linux will trigger an >>> exception when accessing that region during early boot. >>> >>> Can we improve this - without requiring the user to manually add a >>> reservation to the DTB? Should we unconditionally reserve >>> 0x1000..0x7ffff in all BL33 DTBs? Or is there a chance to communicate >>> that need? Or some way to detect in BL33 whether it is needed? >> >> Normally this ddr region should be also protected by security IPs that >> NS has no access there. >> It means in Xilinx flow this can be (and should be) propagated via >> device-tree generator to final DTS file that you don't need to touch it >> by hand. >> I am not aware about any way that NS can query secure world what memory >> can be used. And not sure if there is any standard way to do so. >> > > OK, understood. But then, to be safe, shouldn't the upstream "static" > default DT contain an exclusion of that region so that it won't get > stuck if it is in use? Would block half a meg, but when you have a > custom platform that does not need that, you can and will provide your > own DT anyway. Ideally, the static DTS is a description of the hardware only, and not of runtime constraints imposed by the firmware. If BL31 needs to reserve some memory, it can add that reservation to the DTB at runtime. The fdt_add_reserved_memory() function is available for this purpose. For an example, see the code used by the rpi4[0] or sun50i_h616[1] platforms. If you later load a DTB from disk for use by Linux, you will need to copy the reserved-memory nodes from the U-Boot DTB to the loaded DTB. Regards, Samuel [0]: https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a.git/tree/plat/rpi/r… [1]: https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a.git/tree/plat/allwi…

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] MEM_PROTECT for secure world?

by Sandrine Bailleux

Hi Okash, Varun, Sorry I've not had a chance to properly read this email thread yet so apologies if my comment is irrelevant. I just wanted to point out that TF-A Tests provide some tests for MEM_PROTECT [1] and MEM_PROTECT_CHECK [2] SMC interfaces, in case that helps clarifying their intended usage. Cheers, Sandrine [1] https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/tf-a-tests.git/tree/tftf/tests/runtime… [2] https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/tf-a-tests.git/tree/tftf/tests/runtime…

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Rethrow SError from EL3 to kernel on arm64

by Achin Gupta

Hi, The last time I checked injecting an SError from a higher to lower EL is a bad idea since the latter could be running with SErrors masked. EL3 could check this before injecting but then there is no consistent contract with the lower EL about reporting of these errors. SDEI does not suffer from the same problem. +James who knows more from the OS/Hypervisor perspective. cheers, Achin ________________________________ From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf of Soby Mathew via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Sent: 25 May 2021 09:59 To: Pali Rohár <pali(a)kernel.org> Cc: kabel(a)kernel.org <kabel(a)kernel.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Rethrow SError from EL3 to kernel on arm64 [+tf-a list] Hi Pali, There are 2 philosophies for handing SError in the system, kernel first and firmware first. Assuming you want to stick with firmware first handling (i.e scr_el3.ea is set to 1), then as you mentioned, there are 2 ways to notify the kernel for delegating the error handling: SDEI and SError injection back to kernel. Upstream TF-A only supports SDEI at the moment. For SError injection back to lower EL, you have to setup the hardware state via software at higher EL in such a way that it appears that the fault was taken to the exception vector at the lower exception level. The pseudocode function AArch64.TakeException() in ARM ARM shows the behavior when the PE takes an exception to an Exception level using AArch64 in Non-debug state. This behaviour has to replicated and it involves the higher EL setting up the PSTATE registers correctly and values in other registers for the lower EL (spsr, elr and fault syndrome registers) and jumping to the right offset point to by the vbar_elx of the lower EL. To the lower EL is appears as a SError has triggered at its exception vector and it can proceed with the fault handling. Best Regards Soby Mathew > -----Original Message----- > From: Pali Rohár <pali(a)kernel.org> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 6:07 PM > To: Soby Mathew <Soby.Mathew(a)arm.com> > Subject: Rethrow SError from EL3 to kernel on arm64 > > Hello Soby! > > I have found following discussion in Armada 3720 PCIe SError issue: > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware- > a/+/1541/comment/ca882427_d142bde2/ > > TF-A on Armada 3720 redirects all SErrors to EL3 and panic in TF-A handler. > You wrote in that discussion: > > Ideally you need to signal the SError back to kernel from EL3 using > SDEI or inject the SError to the lower EL and the kernel can decide to > die or not. > > And I would like to ask you, could you help me with implementation of this > SError rethrow functionality? Because I have absolutely no idea how to do it > and catching all SErrors in EL3 is causing issues because some of them can be > handled and recovered by kernel. -- TF-A mailing list TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Rethrow SError from EL3 to kernel on arm64

by Soby Mathew

[+tf-a list] Hi Pali, There are 2 philosophies for handing SError in the system, kernel first and firmware first. Assuming you want to stick with firmware first handling (i.e scr_el3.ea is set to 1), then as you mentioned, there are 2 ways to notify the kernel for delegating the error handling: SDEI and SError injection back to kernel. Upstream TF-A only supports SDEI at the moment. For SError injection back to lower EL, you have to setup the hardware state via software at higher EL in such a way that it appears that the fault was taken to the exception vector at the lower exception level. The pseudocode function AArch64.TakeException() in ARM ARM shows the behavior when the PE takes an exception to an Exception level using AArch64 in Non-debug state. This behaviour has to replicated and it involves the higher EL setting up the PSTATE registers correctly and values in other registers for the lower EL (spsr, elr and fault syndrome registers) and jumping to the right offset point to by the vbar_elx of the lower EL. To the lower EL is appears as a SError has triggered at its exception vector and it can proceed with the fault handling. Best Regards Soby Mathew > -----Original Message----- > From: Pali Rohár <pali(a)kernel.org> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 6:07 PM > To: Soby Mathew <Soby.Mathew(a)arm.com> > Subject: Rethrow SError from EL3 to kernel on arm64 > > Hello Soby! > > I have found following discussion in Armada 3720 PCIe SError issue: > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware- > a/+/1541/comment/ca882427_d142bde2/ > > TF-A on Armada 3720 redirects all SErrors to EL3 and panic in TF-A handler. > You wrote in that discussion: > > Ideally you need to signal the SError back to kernel from EL3 using > SDEI or inject the SError to the lower EL and the kernel can decide to > die or not. > > And I would like to ask you, could you help me with implementation of this > SError rethrow functionality? Because I have absolutely no idea how to do it > and catching all SErrors in EL3 is causing issues because some of them can be > handled and recovered by kernel.

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Trusted Firmware version 2.5 is now available

by Chris Kay

Thanks, Gary, and to everybody who contributed to this release! I’d like to quickly remind everybody that, as part of the v2.5 release, the Trusted Firmware-A project formally adopted the Conventional Commits v1.0.0<https://www.conventionalcommits.org/en/v1.0.0/> specification to enable us to radically reduce our time-to-release in the future. Thank you to everybody who took part in the discussions that allowed us to integrate this, and to those whose concerns I hope we have by now satisfied. As part of this effort, we have introduced a commit verification check to the existing Gerrit-triggered CI job. Where before this applied only to Arm employees, this now includes everybody (even you, reader of this email). This will no doubt require some initial mental reorientation as it did for our Arm-based guinea pigs, but I hope that this it will become a non-issue in short time. To aid in the transition, we are also now packaging additional tooling, namely Commitizen<https://commitizen-tools.github.io/commitizen/> and commitlint<https://commitlint.js.org/#/>, to make writing conformant commits easier, the installation instructions for which have been integrated into the v2.5 prerequisites page<https://trustedfirmware-a.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting_started/prerequi…>. These tools are optional, but highly recommended if you do find your commits being rejected by the CI. Please note that patches currently awaiting review on Gerrit will need to adhere to this specification before merging (this should only take a minute). If you missed previous communications or are unfamiliar with Conventional Commits, here is a brief summary of the format that commit messages are now expected to take: <type>[optional scope]: <description> [optional body] [optional footer(s)] Where the <type> is one of: * feat: A new feature * fix: A bug fix * docs: Documentation only changes * style: Changes that do not affect the meaning of the code (white-space, formatting, missing semi-colons, etc) * refactor: A code change that neither fixes a bug nor adds a feature * perf: A code change that improves performance * test: Adding missing tests or correcting existing tests * build: Changes that affect the build system or external dependencies (example scopes: gulp, broccoli, npm) * ci: Changes to our CI configuration files and scripts (example scopes: Travis, Circle, BrowserStack, SauceLabs) * chore: Other changes that don't modify src or test files * revert: Reverts a previous commit And the [optional scope] consists of an optional parentheses-wrapped scope of your choosing, similarly to how many contributors prefixed their commits previously. A real-world example: docs(prerequisites): add `--no-save` to `npm install` To avoid the mistake fixed by the previous commit, ensure users install the Node.js dependencies without polluting the lock file by passing `--no-save` to the `npm install` line. Change-Id: I10b5cc17b9001fc2e26deee02bf99ce033a949c1 Signed-off-by: Chris Kay <chris.kay(a)arm.com> If you have the time, please do read up on the specification for additional details – I promise it’s short. So long, and happy committing. 😊 Regards, Chris From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf of Gary Morrison via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Date: Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 15:59 To: tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> Subject: [TF-A] Trusted Firmware version 2.5 is now available Trusted Firmware version 2.5 is now available and can be found here: https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a.git/tag/?h=v2.5 https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/tf-a-tests.git/tag/?h=v2.5 https://git.trustedfirmware.org/hafnium/hafnium.git/tag/?h=v2.5 https://git.trustedfirmware.org/ci/tf-a-ci-scripts.git/tag/?h=v2.5 Please refer to the read-the-docs and change log for further information. Regards, Gary Morrison -- Arm -- TF-A mailing list TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a

4 years, 1 month

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Trusted Firmware version 2.5 is now available

by Gary Morrison

Trusted Firmware version 2.5 is now available and can be found here: https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a.git/tag/?h=v2.5 https://git.trustedfirmware.org/TF-A/tf-a-tests.git/tag/?h=v2.5 https://git.trustedfirmware.org/hafnium/hafnium.git/tag/?h=v2.5 https://git.trustedfirmware.org/ci/tf-a-ci-scripts.git/tag/?h=v2.5 Please refer to the read-the-docs and change log for further information. Regards, Gary Morrison -- Arm

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] [PATCH v1] imx8mp: silent uart

by Sandrine Bailleux

Hello Heiko, Thanks for your patch! TF-A project uses Gerrit as the review system for patches, would you mind posting your patch there instead? More details about the patch submission process can be found here: https://trustedfirmware-a.readthedocs.io/en/latest/process/contributing.html Regarding the patch itself, I agree with you that this feature would be useful to other platforms as well. I wonder whether we need a new build option for this, though. We already got LOG_LEVEL, which if set to 0, will effectively silent any console output. However, it will still embed the console driver code within the firmware, if I am not mistaken. So perhaps we should change that, and make LOG_LEVEL=0 compile the console driver code out, in addition to what it already does today. How does that sound to you? Regards, Sandrine On 5/18/21 4:01 PM, Heiko Schocher via TF-A wrote: > when bootloaders and kernels console output is disabled, > (called silent boot) no output on console is recommended. > > Add commandline option IMX_BOOT_SILENT to disable > console registration at all. > > Default value is 0, so patch does not change current > functionality. > > Signed-off-by: Heiko Schocher <hs(a)denx.de> > --- > I just added this to imx8mp, but may this option is > useful on other platforms too? > > plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/imx8mp_bl31_setup.c | 4 ++++ > plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/platform.mk | 3 +++ > 2 files changed, 7 insertions(+) > > diff --git a/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/imx8mp_bl31_setup.c b/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/imx8mp_bl31_setup.c > index 22fbd5e4b..d75143270 100644 > --- a/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/imx8mp_bl31_setup.c > +++ b/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/imx8mp_bl31_setup.c > @@ -95,7 +95,9 @@ static void bl31_tzc380_setup(void) > void bl31_early_platform_setup2(u_register_t arg0, u_register_t arg1, > u_register_t arg2, u_register_t arg3) > { > +#if (IMX_BOOT_SILENT == 0) > static console_t console; > +#endif > unsigned int i; > > /* Enable CSU NS access permission */ > @@ -109,10 +111,12 @@ void bl31_early_platform_setup2(u_register_t arg0, u_register_t arg1, > > imx8m_caam_init(); > > +#if (IMX_BOOT_SILENT == 0) > console_imx_uart_register(IMX_BOOT_UART_BASE, IMX_BOOT_UART_CLK_IN_HZ, > IMX_CONSOLE_BAUDRATE, &console); > /* This console is only used for boot stage */ > console_set_scope(&console, CONSOLE_FLAG_BOOT); > +#endif > > /* > * tell BL3-1 where the non-secure software image is located > diff --git a/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/platform.mk b/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/platform.mk > index 1d11e3df4..471c96e70 100644 > --- a/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/platform.mk > +++ b/plat/imx/imx8m/imx8mp/platform.mk > @@ -54,3 +54,6 @@ $(eval $(call add_define,BL32_SIZE)) > > IMX_BOOT_UART_BASE ?= 0x30890000 > $(eval $(call add_define,IMX_BOOT_UART_BASE)) > + > +IMX_BOOT_SILENT ?= 0 > +$(eval $(call add_define,IMX_BOOT_SILENT)) >

4 years, 1 month

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Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages

by François Ozog

Le mer. 19 mai 2021 à 03:58, Madhukar Pappireddy via TF-A < tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> a écrit : > Hi, > > I tried to summarize the discussions in the previous TF-A tech forum > regarding the proposal to adopt Hand-off Blocks (HOBs) for passing > information along the boot chain. I am certain I could not capture all > suggestions/concerns brought up during the call. I apologize if I missed > and/or misinterpreted any comments and would appreciate it if everyone > could share their thoughts in response to this email thread. > > The idea is to share information to other boot phases: > > Dynamic information: Created during runtime. Shared in the form of a > chain of blobs(built as a linked list of C structure objects i.e., HOB > list). > > Static information: Known at compile time. Historically, shared through > the use of Device Tree/ACPI tables > > Both the above requirements are common in many ecosystems and need to > co-exist. > > There are broadly 3 problems to solve: > 1. Format of HOB structures: It looks like the consensus is that we could > use existing mechanisms for this (BL_AUX_PARAM in TF-A or bloblist in > u-boot). > 2. Identification of HOB list entries: There is a debate about whether > tags would suffice or if the HOB list producer and consumer would depend on > UUID/GUIDs for identifying a specific HOB structure. Another suggestion was > to use a hybrid approach. Reserve a single tag ID for > identifying/constructing a HOB structure that further leverages UUID based > identifier. This way, the generic HOB list doesn't need to support UUIDs > and can work with tags. > 3. The design contract for the static interface between two boot phases: > The problem at hand is whether to pass a pointer to a HOB list or a device > tree blob through the general-purpose registers for configuration hand-off > between two boot phases. Some proposals that came up: > > Proposal 1: Always pass a pointer to the device tree blob > through the GP register and capture the pointer to the HOB list as a > property of a node that is uniquely identifiable by the downstream boot > phase. This needs to define a device tree binding such that producer and > consumer agree on the information passed. > > Proposal 2: Pass a pointer to a generic container through the GP > register that can be interpreted appropriately by both boot loaders(i.e., > producer and consumer of the boot info). This container can either be a dtb > or a HOB list which can be simply inferred by checking for a magic header > that indicates if the buffer appears to be a flattened device tree. > > One another concern that was brought up offline is to make sure > we don't break current design contracts between various boot loader phases > in TF-A. Many of the general-purpose registers have a designated purpose > such as to share configurations between BL images( such as firmware config > dtb, SoC config dtb, Non trusted firmware config dtb, memory layout, entry > point info, etc.). > there should be another paragraph: 4. Requirements for data representation. I’ll take two concrete examples related to DIMM slot population and reporting. 6 years ago (can’t be sure) only DRAM modules could be fitted into DIMM slots. And then came NVDIMM and flash as DIMM (invented by Diablo technologies: 1TB of flash on a DIMM with a few MB as IO buffers and control registers - those memory regions where the only addressable DRAM). In both cases all firmware chain had to be changed to cope with them. If we had used self descriptive information passing (CBOR, DT, AML) for DIMM slot population and not C structure the journey would have been much simpler with forward and backward compatibility as a major side effect. So for data representation , I would concur with previous Ron Minnich @googke comment that we should be using self descriptive information rather than C structures. > > If I am not mistaken, a single design may not fit the needs of every > segment(client, Infra, embedded) and the forum is open to solutions > tailored for individual segments. Joanna will be sending a follow up email > with more information about future TF-A tech forums that serves as a > platform for further discussions. > > Thanks, > Madhukar > > -----Original Message----- > From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> On Behalf Of Joanna > Farley via TF-A > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 5:19 AM > To: Okash Khawaja <okash.khawaja(a)gmail.com>; Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org > > > Cc: Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot > Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org; Ed Stuber <edstuber(a)amperecomputing.com>; > Arjun Khare <akhare(a)amperecomputing.com>; U-Boot Mailing List < > u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich > <rminnich(a)google.com>; Moe Ammar <moe(a)amperecomputing.com> > Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for > information passing between boot stages > > Apologies I failed with the recording. Manish/Madhu will reply early next > week with the slides and some notes to help with a follow up session which > we hope to hold this Thursday. Invite and agenda will also be sent out > early next week. > > Thanks > > Joanna > > On 14/05/2021, 13:30, "TF-A on behalf of Okash Khawaja via TF-A" < > tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org on behalf of > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > Hi, > > Do we have slides and video from last week's discussion? > > Thanks, > Okash > > > On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:52 PM Simon Glass via TF-A > <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Harb, > > > > Thanks for the idea. I am still not completely sure what benefit > UUID provides to an open project. I'd like to propose something different, > more in the spirit of open collaboration. I also worry that the word > 'standard' seems to be a synonym for UUIDs, UEFI, etc., i.e. > enabling/preferring closed-source firmware and the continued decline of > open-source projects. It really should not be. > > > > So I suggest: Use simple integer IDs and reserve some area for > 'private' use. If you want to collaborate across projects outside your > company, you either need to allocate a 'public' ID or agree privately > between the parties which private ID to use. > > > > This means that the default and easiest option is for collaboration > and a public ID, with private ones (whose purpose may be secret) reserved > just for private use. > > > > Regards, > > Simon > > > > On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:42, Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hey Folks, > >> > >> We wanted to put out a middle-ground proposal to help guide the > discussion on the call tomorrow. > >> > >> > >> > >> A proposal that we have been discussing offline involves reserving > a single tag ID for the purpose of construction UEFI PI HOB List structure, > and that tag would be used to identify a HOB-specific structure that does > leverage UUID based identifier. This will eliminate the burden of having > to support UUID as the tag, and this enables projects that require UUID > based identifiers for the broad range of HOB structures that need to be > produced during the booting of the platform. Once we have a tag for a HOB > list, this will enable various HOB producers that can add/extend the HOB > list in TF-A code (or even pre-TF-A code), with a HOB consumer for that > UUID/GUID on the other side (i.e. whatever the BL33 image is booting on > that platform). > >> > >> > >> > >> Essentially, the idea is if someone would like to support HOB > structures in a standard way using TF-A, they would wrap it up in a > BL_AUX_PARAM/BLOB structure (whatever the group decides) and the way we > identify the structure as a HOB list is with this new reserved tag. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hopefully that makes sense and less contentious. Look forward to > discuss this further on the call. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> --Harb > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Manish Pandey2 <Manish.Pandey2(a)arm.com> > >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:14 AM > >> To: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Julius Werner < > jwerner(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org; > U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's < > paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) > for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> > >> > >> Please find invite for next TF-A Tech Forum session to continue our > discussions on HOB implementation, feel free to forward it to others. > >> > >> > >> > >> The next TF-A Tech Forum is scheduled for Thu 6th May 2021 16:00 – > 17:00 (BST). > >> > >> > >> > >> Agenda: > >> > >> Discussion Session: Static and Dynamic Information Handling in TF-A > >> > >> Lead by Manish Pandey and Madhukar Pappireddy > >> > >> · There is ongoing mailing lists discussion[1] related with > adopting a mechanism to pass information through boot stages. > >> > >> The requirement is two-fold: > >> > >> 1. Passing static information(config files) > >> > >> 2. Passing dynamic information (Hob list) > >> > >> In the upcoming TF-A tech forum, we can start with a discussion on > dynamic information passing and if time permits, we can cover static > information passing. The purpose of the call is to have an open discussion > and continue the discussion from the trusted-substrate call[2] done > earlier. We would like to understand the various requirements and possible > ways to implement it in TF-A in a generalized way so that it can work with > other Firmware projects. > >> > >> > >> > >> The two specific item which we would like to discuss are: > >> > >> 1. HOB format: TF-A/u-boot both has an existing bloblist > implementation, which uses tag values. Question, can this be enhanced to > use hybrid values(Tag and UUID) both? > >> > >> 2. Standardization on Physical register use to pass base of > HoB data structure. > >> > >> References: > >> > >> [1] > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/pipermail/tf-a/2021-April/001069.html > >> > >> [2] > https://linaro-org.zoom.us/rec/share/zjfHeMIumkJhirLCVQYTHR6ftaqyWvF_0klgQn… > Passcode: IPn+5q% > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> > >> > >> Joanna > >> > >> > >> > >> You have been invited to the following event. > >> > >> TF-A Tech Forum > >> > >> When > >> > >> Every 2 weeks from 16:00 to 17:00 on Thursday United Kingdom Time > >> > >> Calendar > >> > >> tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> > >> Who > >> > >> • > >> > >> Bill Fletcher- creator > >> > >> • > >> > >> tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> > >> more details » > >> > >> > >> > >> We run an open technical forum call for anyone to participate and > it is not restricted to Trusted Firmware project members. It will operate > under the guidance of the TF TSC. > >> > >> > >> > >> Feel free to forward this invite to colleagues. Invites are via the > TF-A mailing list and also published on the Trusted Firmware website. > Details are here: > https://www.trustedfirmware.org/meetings/tf-a-technical-forum/ > >> > >> > >> > >> Trusted Firmware is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. > >> > >> > >> > >> Join Zoom Meeting > >> > >> https://zoom.us/j/9159704974 > >> > >> > >> > >> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > >> > >> > >> > >> One tap mobile > >> > >> +16465588656,,9159704974# US (New York) > >> > >> +16699009128,,9159704974# US (San Jose) > >> > >> > >> > >> Dial by your location > >> > >> +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) > >> > >> +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) > >> > >> 877 853 5247 US Toll-free > >> > >> 888 788 0099 US Toll-free > >> > >> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > >> > >> Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/ad27hc6t7h > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> From: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > >> Sent: 08 April 2021 16:50 > >> To: Manish Pandey2 <Manish.Pandey2(a)arm.com> > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Julius Werner < > jwerner(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; > Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) > for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> > >> > >> here is the meeting recording: > >> > >> > https://linaro-org.zoom.us/rec/share/zjfHeMIumkJhirLCVQYTHR6ftaqyWvF_0klgQn… > Passcode: IPn+5q%z > >> > >> > >> > >> I am really sorry about the confusion related to the meeting time. > I have now understood: the Collaborate portal uses a specific calendar > which is tied to US/Chicago timezone while the actual Google Calendar is > tied to Central Europe timezone. I am going to drop the Collaborate portal > and use a shared Google calendar (it should be visible on the > trusted-substrate.org page). > >> > >> > >> > >> I'll try to summarize what I learnt and highlight my view on what > can be next steps in a future mail. > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> FF > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 at 13:56, Manish Pandey2 via TF-A < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> > >> From TF-A project point of view, we prefer to use existing > mechanism to pass parameters across boot stages using linked list of tagged > elements (as suggested by Julius). It has support for both generic and > SiP-specific tags. Having said that, it does not stop partners to introduce > new mechanisms suitable for their usecase in platform port initially and > later move to generic code if its suitable for other platforms. > >> > >> > >> > >> To start with, Ampere can introduce a platform specific > implementation of memory tag(speed/NUMA topology etc) which can be > evaluated and discussed for generalization in future. The tag will be > populated in BL2 stage and can be forwarded to further stages(and to BL33) > by passing the head of list pointer in one of the registers. Initially any > register can be used but going forward a standardization will be needed. > >> > >> > >> > >> The U-boot bloblist mentioned by Simon is conceptually similar to > what TF-A is using, if there is consensus of using bloblist/taglist then > TF-A tag list may be enhanced to take best of both the implementations. > >> > >> > >> > >> One of the potential problems of having structure used in different > projects is maintainability, this can be avoided by having a single copy of > these structures in TF-A (kept inside "include/export" which intended to be > used by other projects.) > >> > >> > >> > >> Regarding usage of either UUID or tag, I echo the sentiments of > Simon and Julius to keep it simple and use tag values. > >> > >> > >> > >> Looking forward to having further discussions on zoom call today. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Manish P > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf of > Julius Werner via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> > >> Sent: 25 March 2021 02:43 > >> To: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> > >> Cc: Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot > Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; U-Boot > Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; > Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) > for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> Just want to point out that TF-A currently already supports a (very > simple) mechanism like this: > >> > >> > >> > >> > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > >> > >> > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > >> > >> > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > >> > >> > >> > >> It's just a linked list of tagged elements. The tag space is split > into TF-A-wide generic tags and SiP-specific tags (with plenty of room to > spare if more areas need to be defined -- a 64-bit tag can fit a lot). This > is currently being used by some platforms that run coreboot in place of > BL1/BL2, to pass information from coreboot (BL2) to BL31. > >> > >> > >> > >> I would echo Simon's sentiment of keeping this as simple as > possible and avoiding complicated and bloated data structures with UUIDs. > You usually want to parse something like this as early as possible in the > passed-to firmware stage, particularly if the structure encodes information > about the debug console (like it does for the platforms I mentioned above). > For example, in BL31 this basically means doing it right after moving from > assembly to C in bl31_early_platform_setup2() to get the console up before > running anything else. At that point in the BL31 initialization, the MMU > and caches are disabled, so data accesses are pretty expensive and you > don't want to spend a lot of parsing effort or calculate complicated > checksums or the like. You just want something extremely simple where you > ideally have to touch every data word only once. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:06 PM Simon Glass via TF-A < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Harb, > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 11:39, Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hello Folks, > >> > >> Appreciate the feedback and replies on this. Glad to see that > there is interest in this topic. > >> > >> > >> > >> I try to address the comments/feedback from Francois and Simon > below…. > >> > >> > >> > >> @François Ozog – happy to discuss this on a zoom call. I will make > that time slot work, and will be available to attend April 8, 4pm CT. > >> > >> > >> > >> Note that I’m using the term “HOB” here more generically, as there > are typically vendor specific structures beyond the resource descriptor > HOB, which provides only a small subset of the information that needs to be > passed between the boot phases. > >> > >> > >> > >> The whole point here is to provide mechanism to develop firmware > that we can build ARM Server SoC’s that support *any* BL33 payload (e.g. > EDK2, AptioV, CoreBoot, and maybe even directly boot strapping LinuxBoot at > some point). In other-words, we are trying to come up with a TF-A that > would be completely agnostic to the implementation of BL33 (i.e. BL33 is > built completely independently by a separate entity – e.g. an ODM/OEM). > >> > >> > >> > >> Keep in mind, in the server/datacenter market segment we are not > building vertically integrated systems with a single entity compiling > firmware/software stacks like most folks in TF-A have become use to. There > are two categories of higher level firmware code blobs in the > server/datacenter model: > >> > >> “SoC” or “silicon” firmware – in TF-A this may map to BL1, BL2, > BL31, and *possibly* one or more BL32 instances > >> “Platform” or “board” firmware – in TF-A this may map to BL33 and > *possibly* one or more BL32 instances. > >> > >> > >> > >> Even the platform firmware stack could be further fragmented by > having multiple entities involved in delivering the entire firmware stack: > IBVs, ODMs, OEMs, CSPs, and possibly even device vendor code. > >> > >> > >> > >> To support a broad range of platform designs with a broad range of > memory devices, we need a crisp and clear contract between the SoC firmware > that initializes memory (e.g. BL2) and how that platform boot firmware > (e.g. BL33) gathers information about what memory that was initialized, at > what speeds, NUMA topology, and many other relevant information that needs > to be known and comprehended by the platform firmware and eventually by the > platform software. > >> > >> > >> > >> I understand the versatility of DT, but I see two major problems > with DT: > >> > >> DT requires more complicated parsing to get properties, and even > more complex to dynamically set properties – this HOB structures may need > to be generated in boot phases where DDR is not available, and therefore we > will be extremely memory constrained. > >> DT is probably overkill for this purpose – We really just want a > list of pointers to simple C structures that code cast (e.g. JEDEC SPD data > blob) > >> > >> > >> > >> I think that we should not mix the efforts around DT/ACPI specs > with what we are doing here, because those specs and concepts were > developed for a completely different purpose (i.e. abstractions needed for > OS / RTOS software, and not necessarily suitable for firmware-to-firmware > hand-offs). > >> > >> > >> > >> Frankly, I would personally push back pretty hard on defining SMC’s > for something that should be one way information passing. Every SMC we add > is another attack vector to the secure world and an increased burden on the > folks that have to do security auditing and threat analysis. I see no > benefit in exposing these boot/HOB/BOB structures at run-time via SMC calls. > >> > >> > >> > >> Please do let me know if you disagree and why. Look forward to > discussing on this thread or on the call. > >> > >> > >> > >> @Simon Glass - Thanks for the pointer to bloblist. I briefly > reviewed and it seems like a good baseline for what we may be looking for. > >> > >> > >> > >> That being said, I would say that there is some benefit in having > some kind of unique identifiers (e.g. UUID or some unique signature) so > that we can tie standardized data structures (based on some future TBD > specs) to a particular ID. For example, if the TPM driver in BL33 is > looking for the TPM structure in the HOB/BOB list, and may not care about > the other data blobs. The driver needs a way to identify and locate the > blob it cares about. > >> > >> > >> > >> The tag is intended to serve that purpose, although perhaps it > should switch from an auto-allocating enum to one with explicit values for > each entry and a range for 'local' use. > >> > >> > >> > >> I guess we can achieve this with the tag, but the problem with tag > when you have eco-system with a lot of parties doing parallel development, > you can end up with tag collisions and folks fighting about who has rights > to what tag values. We would need some official process for folks to > register tags for whatever new structures we define, or maybe some tag > range for vendor specific structures. This comes with a lot of pain and > bureaucracy. On the other hand, UUID has been a proven way to make it easy > to just define your own blobs with *either* standard or vendor specific > structures without worry of ID collisions between vendors. > >> > >> > >> > >> True. I think the pain is overstated, though. In this case I think > we actually want something that can be shared between projects and orgs, so > some amount of coordination could be considered a benefit. It could just be > a github pull request. I find the UUID unfriendly and not just to code size > and eyesight! Trying to discover what GUIDs mean or are valid is quite > tricky. E.g. see this code: > >> > >> > >> > >> #define FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_TSEG_GUID \ > >> EFI_GUID(0xd038747c, 0xd00c, 0x4980, \ > >> 0xb3, 0x19, 0x49, 0x01, 0x99, 0xa4, 0x7d, 0x55) > >> > >> (etc.) > >> > >> > >> > >> static struct guid_name { > >> efi_guid_t guid; > >> const char *name; > >> } guid_name[] = { > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_TSEG_GUID, "TSEG" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_FSP_GUID, "FSP" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_SMM_PEI_SMRAM_GUID, "SMM PEI SMRAM" }, > >> { FSP_NON_VOLATILE_STORAGE_HOB_GUID, "NVS" }, > >> { FSP_VARIABLE_NV_DATA_HOB_GUID, "Variable NVS" }, > >> { FSP_GRAPHICS_INFO_HOB_GUID, "Graphics info" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PCD_DATABASE_GUID1, "PCD database ea" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PCD_DATABASE_GUID2, "PCD database 9b" }, > >> > >> (never figured out what those two are) > >> > >> > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PEIM_DXE_GUID, "PEIM Init DXE" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_ALLOC_STACK_GUID, "Alloc stack" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_SMBIOS_MEMORY_GUID, "SMBIOS memory" }, > >> { {}, "zero-guid" }, > >> {} > >> }; > >> > >> static const char *guid_to_name(const efi_guid_t *guid) > >> { > >> struct guid_name *entry; > >> > >> for (entry = guid_name; entry->name; entry++) { > >> if (!guidcmp(guid, &entry->guid)) > >> return entry->name; > >> } > >> > >> return NULL; > >> } > >> > >> > >> > >> Believe it or not it took a fair bit of effort to find just that > small list, with nearly every one in a separate doc, from memory. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> We can probably debate whether there is any value in GUID/UUID or > not during the call… but again, boblist seems like a reasonable starting > point as an alternative to HOB. > >> > >> > >> > >> Indeed. There is certainly value in both approaches. > >> > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Simon > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> --Harb > >> > >> > >> > >> From: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 10:00 AM > >> To: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich < > rminnich(a)google.com>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org> > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) > for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> +Ron Minnich +Paul Isaac's > >> > >> > >> > >> Adding Ron and Paul because I think this interface should be also > benefiting LinuxBoot efforts. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 11:17, François Ozog via TF-A < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> > >> I propose we cover the topic at the next Trusted Substrate zoom > call on April 8th 4pm CET. > >> > >> > >> > >> The agenda: > >> > >> ABI between non-secure firmware and the rest of firmware (EL3, > S-EL1, S-EL2, SCP) to adapt hardware description to some runtime conditions. > >> > >> runtime conditions here relates to DRAM size and topology > detection, secure DRAM memory carvings, PSCI and SCMI interface publishing. > >> > >> > >> > >> For additional background on existing metadata: UEFI Platform > Initialization Specification Version 1.7, 5.5 Resource Descriptor HOB > >> > >> Out of the ResourceType we care about is EFI_RESOURCE_SYSTEM_MEMORY. > >> > >> This HOB lacks memory NUMA attachment or something that could be > related to fill SRAT table for ACPI or relevant DT proximity domains. > >> > >> HOB is not consistent accros platforms: some platforms (Arm) lists > memory from the booting NUMA node, other platforms (x86) lists all memory > from all NUMA nodes. (At least this is the case on the two platforms I > tested). > >> > >> > >> > >> There are two proposals to use memory structures from SPL/BLx up to > the handover function (as defined in the Device Tree technical report) > which can be U-boot (BL33 or just U-Boot in case of SPL/U-Boot scheme) or > EDK2. > >> > >> I would propose we also discuss possibility of FF-A interface to > actually query information or request actions to be done (this is a model > actually used in some SoCs with proprietary SMC calls). > >> > >> > >> > >> Requirements (to be validated): > >> > >> - ACPI and DT hardware descriptions. > >> > >> - agnostic to boot framework (SPL/U-Boot, TF-A/U-Boot, TF-A/EDK2) > >> > >> - agnostic to boot framework (SPL/U-Boot, TF-A/U-Boot, TF-A/EDK2, > TF-A/LinuxBoot) > >> > >> - at least allows complete DRAM description and "persistent" usage > (reserved areas for secure world or other usages) > >> > >> - support secure world device assignment > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> FF > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 19:56, Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Can I suggest using bloblist for this instead? It is lightweight, > >> easier to parse, doesn't have GUIDs and is already used within > U-Boot > >> for passing info between SPL/U-Boot, etc. > >> > >> Docs here: > https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/doc/README.bloblist > >> Header file describes the format: > >> https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/include/bloblist.h > >> > >> Full set of unit tests: > >> https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/test/bloblist.c > >> > >> Regards, > >> Simon > >> > >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 23:58, François Ozog < > francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > +Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org> > >> > > >> > standardization is very much welcomed here and need to > accommodate a very > >> > diverse set of situations. > >> > For example, TEE OS may need to pass memory reservations to BL33 > or > >> > "capture" a device for the secure world. > >> > > >> > I have observed a number of architectures: > >> > 1) pass information from BLx to BLy in the form of a specific > object > >> > 2) BLx called by BLy by a platform specific SMC to get information > >> > 3) BLx called by BLy by a platform specific SMC to perform Device > Tree > >> > fixups > >> > > >> > I also imagined a standardized "broadcast" FF-A call so that any > firmware > >> > element can either provide information or "do something". > >> > > >> > My understanding of your proposal is about standardizing on > architecture 1) > >> > with the HOB format. > >> > > >> > The advantage of the HOB is simplicity but it may be difficult to > implement > >> > schemes such as pruning a DT because device assignment in the > secure world. > >> > > >> > In any case, it looks feasible to have TF-A and OP-TEE complement > the list > >> > of HOBs to pass information downstream (the bootflow). > >> > > >> > It would be good to start with building the comprehensive list of > >> > information that need to be conveyed between firmware elements: > >> > > >> > information. | authoritative entity | reporting entity | > information > >> > exchanged: > >> > dram | TFA | TFA > | > >> > <format to be detailed, NUMA topology to build the SRAT table or > DT > >> > equivalent?> > >> > PSCI | SCP | TFA? > | > >> > SCMI | SCP or TEE-OS | TFA? TEE-OS?| > >> > secure SRAM | TFA. | TFA. | > >> > secure DRAM | TFA? TEE-OS? | TFA? TEE-OS? | > >> > other? | | > >> > | > >> > > >> > Cheers > >> > > >> > FF > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 09:34, Harb Abdulhamid OS via TF-A < > >> > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hello Folks, > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > I'm emailing to start an open discussion about the adoption of > a concept > >> > > known as "hand-off blocks" or HOB to become a part of the TF-A > Firmware > >> > > Framework Architecture (FFA). This is something that is a > pretty major > >> > > pain point when it comes to the adoption of TF-A in ARM Server > SoC’s > >> > > designed to enable a broad range of highly configurable > datacenter > >> > > platforms. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > What is a HOB (Background)? > >> > > > >> > > --------------------------- > >> > > > >> > > UEFI PI spec describes a particular definition for how HOB may > be used for > >> > > transitioning between the PEI and DXE boot phases, which is a > good > >> > > reference point for this discussion, but not necessarily the > exact solution > >> > > appropriate for TF-A. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > A HOB is simply a dynamically generated data structure passed > in between > >> > > two boot phases. This is information that was obtained through > discovery > >> > > and needs to be passed forward to the next boot phase *once*, > with no API > >> > > needed to call back (e.g. no call back into previous firmware > phase is > >> > > needed to fetch this information at run-time - it is simply > passed one time > >> > > during boot). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > There may be one or more HOBs passed in between boot phases. > If there are > >> > > more than one HOB that needs to be passed, this can be in a > form of a "HOB > >> > > table", which (for example) could be a UUID indexed array of > pointers to > >> > > HOB structures, used to locate a HOB of interest (based on > UUID). In such > >> > > cases, instead of passing a single HOB, the boot phases may > rely on passing > >> > > the pointer to the HOB table. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > This has been extremely useful concept to employ on highly > configurable > >> > > systems that must rely on flexible discovery mechanisms to > initialize and > >> > > boot the system. This is especially helpful when you have > multiple > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Why do we need HOBs in TF-A?: > >> > > > >> > > ----------------------------- > >> > > > >> > > It is desirable that EL3 firmware (e.g. TF-A) built for ARM > Server SoC in > >> > > a way that is SoC specific *but* platform agnostic. This means > that a > >> > > single ARM SoC that a SiP may deliver to customers may provide > a single > >> > > TF-A binary (e.g. BL1, BL2, BL31) that could be used to support > a broad > >> > > range of platform designs and configurations in order to boot a > platform > >> > > specific firmware (e.g. BL33 and possibly even BL32 code). In > order to > >> > > achieve this, the platform configuration must be *discovered* > instead of > >> > > statically compiled as it is today in TF-A via device tree based > >> > > enumeration. The mechanisms of discovery may differ broadly > depending on > >> > > the relevant industry standard, or in some cases may have rely > on SiP > >> > > specific discovery flows. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > For example: On server systems that support a broad range DIMM > memory > >> > > population/topologies, all the necessary information required > to boot is > >> > > fully discovered via standard JEDEC Serial Presence Detect > (SPD) over an > >> > > I2C bus. Leveraging the SPD bus, may platform variants could > be supported > >> > > with a single TF-A binary. Not only is this information > required to > >> > > initialize memory in early boot phases (e.g. BL2), the > subsequent boot > >> > > phases will also need this SPD info to construct a system > physical address > >> > > map and properly initialize the MMU based on the memory > present, and where > >> > > the memory may be present. Subsequent boot phases (e.g. BL33 / > UEFI) may > >> > > need to generate standard firmware tables to the operating > systems, such as > >> > > SMBIOS tables describing DIMM topology and various ACPI tables > (e.g. SLIT, > >> > > SRAT, even NFIT if NVDIMM's are present). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > In short, it all starts with a standardized or vendor specific > discovery > >> > > flow in an early boot stage (e.g. BL1/BL2), followed by the > passing of > >> > > information to the next boot stages (e.g. BL31/BL32/BL33). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Today, every HOB may be a vendor specific structure, but in the > future > >> > > there may be benefit of defining standard HOBs. This may be > useful for > >> > > memory discovery, passing the system physical address map, > enabling TPM > >> > > measured boot, and potentially many other common HOB use-cases. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > It would be extremely beneficial to the datacenter market > segment if the > >> > > TF-A community would adopt this concept of information passing > between all > >> > > boot phases as opposed to rely solely on device tree > enumeration. This is > >> > > not intended to replace device tree, rather intended as an > alternative way > >> > > to describe the info that must be discovered and dynamically > generated. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Conclusion: > >> > > > >> > > ----------- > >> > > > >> > > We are proposing that the TF-A community begin pursuing the > adoption of > >> > > HOBs as a mechanism used for information exchange between each > boot stage > >> > > (e.g. BL1->BL2, BL2->BL31, BL31->BL32, and BL31->BL33)? Longer > term we > >> > > want to explore standardizing some HOB structures for the BL33 > phase (e.g. > >> > > UEFI HOB structures), but initially would like to agree on this > being a > >> > > useful mechanism used to pass information between each boot > stage. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >> > > > >> > > --Harb > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > TF-A mailing list > >> > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing > Group* > >> > T: +33.67221.6485 > >> > francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > boot-architecture mailing list > >> > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org > >> > https://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/boot-architecture > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group > >> > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> TF-A mailing list > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group > >> > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> TF-A mailing list > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > >> -- > >> TF-A mailing list > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group > >> > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > >> > > > > -- > > TF-A mailing list > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group* T: +33.67221.6485 francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog

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Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages

by François Ozog

Le mer. 19 mai 2021 à 23:51, Jeremy Linton via TF-A < tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> a écrit : > On 5/18/21 8:59 PM, Madhukar Pappireddy via TF-A wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I tried to summarize the discussions in the previous TF-A tech forum > regarding the proposal to adopt Hand-off Blocks (HOBs) for passing > information along the boot chain. I am certain I could not capture all > suggestions/concerns brought up during the call. I apologize if I missed > and/or misinterpreted any comments and would appreciate it if everyone > could share their thoughts in response to this email thread. > > > > The idea is to share information to other boot phases: > >> Dynamic information: Created during runtime. Shared in the form of a > chain of blobs(built as a linked list of C structure objects i.e., HOB > list). > >> Static information: Known at compile time. Historically, shared through > the use of Device Tree/ACPI tables > > > > Both the above requirements are common in many ecosystems and need to > co-exist. > > > > There are broadly 3 problems to solve: > > 1. Format of HOB structures: It looks like the consensus is that we > could use existing mechanisms for this (BL_AUX_PARAM in TF-A or bloblist in > u-boot). > > 2. Identification of HOB list entries: There is a debate about whether > tags would suffice or if the HOB list producer and consumer would depend on > UUID/GUIDs for identifying a specific HOB structure. Another suggestion was > to use a hybrid approach. Reserve a single tag ID for > identifying/constructing a HOB structure that further leverages UUID based > identifier. This way, the generic HOB list doesn't need to support UUIDs > and can work with tags. > > 3. The design contract for the static interface between two boot phases: > The problem at hand is whether to pass a pointer to a HOB list or a device > tree blob through the general-purpose registers for configuration hand-off > between two boot phases. Some proposals that came up: > > > Proposal 1: Always pass a pointer to the device tree blob > through the GP register and capture the pointer to the HOB list as a > property of a node that is uniquely identifiable by the downstream boot > phase. This needs to define a device tree binding such that producer and > consumer agree on the information passed. > > > Using DT to pass platform info at this level is sort of crazy on an ACPI > machine which won't have native DTs. Meaning there is an additional > level of unnecessary indirection that needs to be converted back into a > format which can be utilized by AML and other parts of the ACPI stack. I would love the BL33 becomes a product maker (using a board vendor product) decision: using EDK2, U-Boot, LinuxBoot or even Xen directly as BL33. If this is a goal , then there will be a need for a translation layer between the firmware framework (tfa, core boot, uboot SPL) formats and the non secure firmware format. If this is not a goal then I agree that passing a DT in an ACPI system is suboptimal. That said there is a UEFI PI HOB that is a DT container and used in existing systems. And conversely, in systems with complex MDIO or other hardware without ACPI representation (serdes), it does not make sense to bring ACPI stuff. The easiest path is to not give a choice of BL33 and have a format for each “realm”: DT or ACPI. > > Its also helpful to look at what has become of the rpi4 uefi port, where > the DT is actually dynamic (or provided by the user, complete with HAT > overlays) and fed into the lower level firmware and propagated up > through the system. The result has frequently been subtle bugs or boot > failures because the DT provided by the rpi foundation as part of their > low level firwmare+kernel stack is modified by their low level firwmare, > and it differs from the DT in mainline linux. So more than once we have > discovered that there isn't a single DT that can be boot both the > current firmware and a current mainline linux. In the past there was > even an option to use one DT for the firmware and an entirely seperate > one for linux, but that was removed when it bacame apparent you couldn't > have the lower level firmwaer say modifying MMIO windows for the PCIe > subsystem and not propogate that into the other user supplied DT. > ACPI shows that firmware provided hardware description makes life easier. That’s why Arm SystemReady-IR states that it should be the case for DT too. RPI4 and beaglebone have had different strategies and each with good and bad things. The Linaro Device Tree Evolution open project is tackling diverse aspects of DT including proper handling hats, and other runtime adaptations. > > At this point the uefi firmware on the rpi will provide a DT if asked, > but it doesn't parse it nor does anything in the AML. Instead everything > is done directly against the hardware, even when the HW registers aren't > well documented.That is in large parts because the AML requirements are > a lot different than what is provided in the DT. > > > > > > Proposal 2: Pass a pointer to a generic container through the GP > register that can be interpreted appropriately by both boot loaders(i.e., > producer and consumer of the boot info). This container can either be a dtb > or a HOB list which can be simply inferred by checking for a magic header > that indicates if the buffer appears to be a flattened device tree. > > > One another concern that was brought up offline is to make sure > we don't break current design contracts between various boot loader phases > in TF-A. Many of the general-purpose registers have a designated purpose > such as to share configurations between BL images( such as firmware config > dtb, SoC config dtb, Non trusted firmware config dtb, memory layout, entry > point info, etc.). > > > > If I am not mistaken, a single design may not fit the needs of every > segment(client, Infra, embedded) and the forum is open to solutions > tailored for individual segments. Joanna will be sending a follow up email > with more information about future TF-A tech forums that serves as a > platform for further discussions. > > > > Thanks, > > Madhukar > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> On Behalf Of Joanna > Farley via TF-A > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 5:19 AM > > To: Okash Khawaja <okash.khawaja(a)gmail.com>; Simon Glass < > sjg(a)chromium.org> > > Cc: Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot > Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org; Ed Stuber <edstuber(a)amperecomputing.com>; > Arjun Khare <akhare(a)amperecomputing.com>; U-Boot Mailing List < > u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich > <rminnich(a)google.com>; Moe Ammar <moe(a)amperecomputing.com> > > Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for > information passing between boot stages > > > > Apologies I failed with the recording. Manish/Madhu will reply early > next week with the slides and some notes to help with a follow up session > which we hope to hold this Thursday. Invite and agenda will also be sent > out early next week. > > > > Thanks > > > > Joanna > > > > On 14/05/2021, 13:30, "TF-A on behalf of Okash Khawaja via TF-A" < > tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org on behalf of > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Do we have slides and video from last week's discussion? > > > > Thanks, > > Okash > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:52 PM Simon Glass via TF-A > > <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Harb, > > > > > > Thanks for the idea. I am still not completely sure what benefit > UUID provides to an open project. I'd like to propose something different, > more in the spirit of open collaboration. I also worry that the word > 'standard' seems to be a synonym for UUIDs, UEFI, etc., i.e. > enabling/preferring closed-source firmware and the continued decline of > open-source projects. It really should not be. > > > > > > So I suggest: Use simple integer IDs and reserve some area for > 'private' use. If you want to collaborate across projects outside your > company, you either need to allocate a 'public' ID or agree privately > between the parties which private ID to use. > > > > > > This means that the default and easiest option is for > collaboration and a public ID, with private ones (whose purpose may be > secret) reserved just for private use. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Simon > > > > > > On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:42, Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hey Folks, > > >> > > >> We wanted to put out a middle-ground proposal to help guide the > discussion on the call tomorrow. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> A proposal that we have been discussing offline involves > reserving a single tag ID for the purpose of construction UEFI PI HOB List > structure, and that tag would be used to identify a HOB-specific structure > that does leverage UUID based identifier. This will eliminate the burden > of having to support UUID as the tag, and this enables projects that > require UUID based identifiers for the broad range of HOB structures that > need to be produced during the booting of the platform. Once we have a tag > for a HOB list, this will enable various HOB producers that can add/extend > the HOB list in TF-A code (or even pre-TF-A code), with a HOB consumer for > that UUID/GUID on the other side (i.e. whatever the BL33 image is booting > on that platform). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Essentially, the idea is if someone would like to support HOB > structures in a standard way using TF-A, they would wrap it up in a > BL_AUX_PARAM/BLOB structure (whatever the group decides) and the way we > identify the structure as a HOB list is with this new reserved tag. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hopefully that makes sense and less contentious. Look forward > to discuss this further on the call. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> --Harb > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Manish Pandey2 <Manish.Pandey2(a)arm.com> > > >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:14 AM > > >> To: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Julius Werner < > jwerner(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org; > U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's < > paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks > (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi All, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Please find invite for next TF-A Tech Forum session to continue > our discussions on HOB implementation, feel free to forward it to others. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The next TF-A Tech Forum is scheduled for Thu 6th May 2021 16:00 > – 17:00 (BST). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Agenda: > > >> > > >> Discussion Session: Static and Dynamic Information Handling in > TF-A > > >> > > >> Lead by Manish Pandey and Madhukar Pappireddy > > >> > > >> · There is ongoing mailing lists discussion[1] related > with adopting a mechanism to pass information through boot stages. > > >> > > >> The requirement is two-fold: > > >> > > >> 1. Passing static information(config files) > > >> > > >> 2. Passing dynamic information (Hob list) > > >> > > >> In the upcoming TF-A tech forum, we can start with a discussion > on dynamic information passing and if time permits, we can cover static > information passing. The purpose of the call is to have an open discussion > and continue the discussion from the trusted-substrate call[2] done > earlier. We would like to understand the various requirements and possible > ways to implement it in TF-A in a generalized way so that it can work with > other Firmware projects. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The two specific item which we would like to discuss are: > > >> > > >> 1. HOB format: TF-A/u-boot both has an existing bloblist > implementation, which uses tag values. Question, can this be enhanced to > use hybrid values(Tag and UUID) both? > > >> > > >> 2. Standardization on Physical register use to pass base of > HoB data structure. > > >> > > >> References: > > >> > > >> [1] > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/pipermail/tf-a/2021-April/001069.html > > >> > > >> [2] > https://linaro-org.zoom.us/rec/share/zjfHeMIumkJhirLCVQYTHR6ftaqyWvF_0klgQn… > Passcode: IPn+5q% > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Joanna > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> You have been invited to the following event. > > >> > > >> TF-A Tech Forum > > >> > > >> When > > >> > > >> Every 2 weeks from 16:00 to 17:00 on Thursday United Kingdom Time > > >> > > >> Calendar > > >> > > >> tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> > > >> Who > > >> > > >> • > > >> > > >> Bill Fletcher- creator > > >> > > >> • > > >> > > >> tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> > > >> more details » > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> We run an open technical forum call for anyone to participate > and it is not restricted to Trusted Firmware project members. It will > operate under the guidance of the TF TSC. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Feel free to forward this invite to colleagues. Invites are via > the TF-A mailing list and also published on the Trusted Firmware website. > Details are here: > https://www.trustedfirmware.org/meetings/tf-a-technical-forum/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Trusted Firmware is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Join Zoom Meeting > > >> > > >> https://zoom.us/j/9159704974 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> One tap mobile > > >> > > >> +16465588656,,9159704974# US (New York) > > >> > > >> +16699009128,,9159704974# US (San Jose) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Dial by your location > > >> > > >> +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) > > >> > > >> +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) > > >> > > >> 877 853 5247 US Toll-free > > >> > > >> 888 788 0099 US Toll-free > > >> > > >> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > > >> > > >> Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/ad27hc6t7h > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> From: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > > >> Sent: 08 April 2021 16:50 > > >> To: Manish Pandey2 <Manish.Pandey2(a)arm.com> > > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Julius Werner < > jwerner(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; > Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks > (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> here is the meeting recording: > > >> > > >> > https://linaro-org.zoom.us/rec/share/zjfHeMIumkJhirLCVQYTHR6ftaqyWvF_0klgQn… > Passcode: IPn+5q%z > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I am really sorry about the confusion related to the meeting > time. I have now understood: the Collaborate portal uses a specific > calendar which is tied to US/Chicago timezone while the actual Google > Calendar is tied to Central Europe timezone. I am going to drop the > Collaborate portal and use a shared Google calendar (it should be visible > on the trusted-substrate.org page). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I'll try to summarize what I learnt and highlight my view on > what can be next steps in a future mail. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> FF > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 at 13:56, Manish Pandey2 via TF-A < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From TF-A project point of view, we prefer to use existing > mechanism to pass parameters across boot stages using linked list of tagged > elements (as suggested by Julius). It has support for both generic and > SiP-specific tags. Having said that, it does not stop partners to introduce > new mechanisms suitable for their usecase in platform port initially and > later move to generic code if its suitable for other platforms. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> To start with, Ampere can introduce a platform specific > implementation of memory tag(speed/NUMA topology etc) which can be > evaluated and discussed for generalization in future. The tag will be > populated in BL2 stage and can be forwarded to further stages(and to BL33) > by passing the head of list pointer in one of the registers. Initially any > register can be used but going forward a standardization will be needed. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The U-boot bloblist mentioned by Simon is conceptually similar > to what TF-A is using, if there is consensus of using bloblist/taglist > then TF-A tag list may be enhanced to take best of both the implementations. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> One of the potential problems of having structure used in > different projects is maintainability, this can be avoided by having a > single copy of these structures in TF-A (kept inside "include/export" which > intended to be used by other projects.) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regarding usage of either UUID or tag, I echo the sentiments of > Simon and Julius to keep it simple and use tag values. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Looking forward to having further discussions on zoom call today. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks > > >> > > >> Manish P > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf > of Julius Werner via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> > > >> Sent: 25 March 2021 02:43 > > >> To: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> > > >> Cc: Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; > Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; U-Boot > Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; > Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks > (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Just want to point out that TF-A currently already supports a > (very simple) mechanism like this: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > > >> > > >> > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > > >> > > >> > https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> It's just a linked list of tagged elements. The tag space is > split into TF-A-wide generic tags and SiP-specific tags (with plenty of > room to spare if more areas need to be defined -- a 64-bit tag can fit a > lot). This is currently being used by some platforms that run coreboot in > place of BL1/BL2, to pass information from coreboot (BL2) to BL31. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I would echo Simon's sentiment of keeping this as simple as > possible and avoiding complicated and bloated data structures with UUIDs. > You usually want to parse something like this as early as possible in the > passed-to firmware stage, particularly if the structure encodes information > about the debug console (like it does for the platforms I mentioned above). > For example, in BL31 this basically means doing it right after moving from > assembly to C in bl31_early_platform_setup2() to get the console up before > running anything else. At that point in the BL31 initialization, the MMU > and caches are disabled, so data accesses are pretty expensive and you > don't want to spend a lot of parsing effort or calculate complicated > checksums or the like. You just want something extremely simple where you > ideally have to touch every data word only once. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:06 PM Simon Glass via TF-A < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi Harb, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 11:39, Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hello Folks, > > >> > > >> Appreciate the feedback and replies on this. Glad to see that > there is interest in this topic. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I try to address the comments/feedback from Francois and Simon > below…. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> @François Ozog – happy to discuss this on a zoom call. I will > make that time slot work, and will be available to attend April 8, 4pm CT. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Note that I’m using the term “HOB” here more generically, as > there are typically vendor specific structures beyond the resource > descriptor HOB, which provides only a small subset of the information that > needs to be passed between the boot phases. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The whole point here is to provide mechanism to develop firmware > that we can build ARM Server SoC’s that support *any* BL33 payload (e.g. > EDK2, AptioV, CoreBoot, and maybe even directly boot strapping LinuxBoot at > some point). In other-words, we are trying to come up with a TF-A that > would be completely agnostic to the implementation of BL33 (i.e. BL33 is > built completely independently by a separate entity – e.g. an ODM/OEM). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Keep in mind, in the server/datacenter market segment we are not > building vertically integrated systems with a single entity compiling > firmware/software stacks like most folks in TF-A have become use to. There > are two categories of higher level firmware code blobs in the > server/datacenter model: > > >> > > >> “SoC” or “silicon” firmware – in TF-A this may map to BL1, BL2, > BL31, and *possibly* one or more BL32 instances > > >> “Platform” or “board” firmware – in TF-A this may map to BL33 > and *possibly* one or more BL32 instances. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Even the platform firmware stack could be further fragmented by > having multiple entities involved in delivering the entire firmware stack: > IBVs, ODMs, OEMs, CSPs, and possibly even device vendor code. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> To support a broad range of platform designs with a broad range > of memory devices, we need a crisp and clear contract between the SoC > firmware that initializes memory (e.g. BL2) and how that platform boot > firmware (e.g. BL33) gathers information about what memory that was > initialized, at what speeds, NUMA topology, and many other relevant > information that needs to be known and comprehended by the platform > firmware and eventually by the platform software. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I understand the versatility of DT, but I see two major problems > with DT: > > >> > > >> DT requires more complicated parsing to get properties, and even > more complex to dynamically set properties – this HOB structures may need > to be generated in boot phases where DDR is not available, and therefore we > will be extremely memory constrained. > > >> DT is probably overkill for this purpose – We really just want a > list of pointers to simple C structures that code cast (e.g. JEDEC SPD data > blob) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I think that we should not mix the efforts around DT/ACPI specs > with what we are doing here, because those specs and concepts were > developed for a completely different purpose (i.e. abstractions needed for > OS / RTOS software, and not necessarily suitable for firmware-to-firmware > hand-offs). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Frankly, I would personally push back pretty hard on defining > SMC’s for something that should be one way information passing. Every SMC > we add is another attack vector to the secure world and an increased burden > on the folks that have to do security auditing and threat analysis. I see > no benefit in exposing these boot/HOB/BOB structures at run-time via SMC > calls. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Please do let me know if you disagree and why. Look forward to > discussing on this thread or on the call. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> @Simon Glass - Thanks for the pointer to bloblist. I briefly > reviewed and it seems like a good baseline for what we may be looking for. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> That being said, I would say that there is some benefit in > having some kind of unique identifiers (e.g. UUID or some unique signature) > so that we can tie standardized data structures (based on some future TBD > specs) to a particular ID. For example, if the TPM driver in BL33 is > looking for the TPM structure in the HOB/BOB list, and may not care about > the other data blobs. The driver needs a way to identify and locate the > blob it cares about. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The tag is intended to serve that purpose, although perhaps it > should switch from an auto-allocating enum to one with explicit values for > each entry and a range for 'local' use. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I guess we can achieve this with the tag, but the problem with > tag when you have eco-system with a lot of parties doing parallel > development, you can end up with tag collisions and folks fighting about > who has rights to what tag values. We would need some official process for > folks to register tags for whatever new structures we define, or maybe some > tag range for vendor specific structures. This comes with a lot of pain > and bureaucracy. On the other hand, UUID has been a proven way to make it > easy to just define your own blobs with *either* standard or vendor > specific structures without worry of ID collisions between vendors. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> True. I think the pain is overstated, though. In this case I > think we actually want something that can be shared between projects and > orgs, so some amount of coordination could be considered a benefit. It > could just be a github pull request. I find the UUID unfriendly and not > just to code size and eyesight! Trying to discover what GUIDs mean or are > valid is quite tricky. E.g. see this code: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> #define FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_TSEG_GUID \ > > >> EFI_GUID(0xd038747c, 0xd00c, 0x4980, \ > > >> 0xb3, 0x19, 0x49, 0x01, 0x99, 0xa4, 0x7d, 0x55) > > >> > > >> (etc.) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> static struct guid_name { > > >> efi_guid_t guid; > > >> const char *name; > > >> } guid_name[] = { > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_TSEG_GUID, "TSEG" }, > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_FSP_GUID, "FSP" }, > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_SMM_PEI_SMRAM_GUID, "SMM PEI SMRAM" > }, > > >> { FSP_NON_VOLATILE_STORAGE_HOB_GUID, "NVS" }, > > >> { FSP_VARIABLE_NV_DATA_HOB_GUID, "Variable NVS" }, > > >> { FSP_GRAPHICS_INFO_HOB_GUID, "Graphics info" }, > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PCD_DATABASE_GUID1, "PCD database > ea" }, > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PCD_DATABASE_GUID2, "PCD database > 9b" }, > > >> > > >> (never figured out what those two are) > > >> > > >> > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PEIM_DXE_GUID, "PEIM Init DXE" }, > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_ALLOC_STACK_GUID, "Alloc stack" }, > > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_SMBIOS_MEMORY_GUID, "SMBIOS memory" > }, > > >> { {}, "zero-guid" }, > > >> {} > > >> }; > > >> > > >> static const char *guid_to_name(const efi_guid_t *guid) > > >> { > > >> struct guid_name *entry; > > >> > > >> for (entry = guid_name; entry->name; entry++) { > > >> if (!guidcmp(guid, &entry->guid)) > > >> return entry->name; > > >> } > > >> > > >> return NULL; > > >> } > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Believe it or not it took a fair bit of effort to find just that > small list, with nearly every one in a separate doc, from memory. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> We can probably debate whether there is any value in GUID/UUID > or not during the call… but again, boblist seems like a reasonable starting > point as an alternative to HOB. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Indeed. There is certainly value in both approaches. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> > > >> Simon > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> --Harb > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 10:00 AM > > >> To: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich < > rminnich(a)google.com>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org> > > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS < > abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks > (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> +Ron Minnich +Paul Isaac's > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Adding Ron and Paul because I think this interface should be > also benefiting LinuxBoot efforts. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 11:17, François Ozog via TF-A < > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I propose we cover the topic at the next Trusted Substrate > zoom call on April 8th 4pm CET. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The agenda: > > >> > > >> ABI between non-secure firmware and the rest of firmware (EL3, > S-EL1, S-EL2, SCP) to adapt hardware description to some runtime conditions. > > >> > > >> runtime conditions here relates to DRAM size and topology > detection, secure DRAM memory carvings, PSCI and SCMI interface publishing. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> For additional background on existing metadata: UEFI Platform > Initialization Specification Version 1.7, 5.5 Resource Descriptor HOB > > >> > > >> Out of the ResourceType we care about is > EFI_RESOURCE_SYSTEM_MEMORY. > > >> > > >> This HOB lacks memory NUMA attachment or something that could be > related to fill SRAT table for ACPI or relevant DT proximity domains. > > >> > > >> HOB is not consistent accros platforms: some platforms (Arm) > lists memory from the booting NUMA node, other platforms (x86) lists all > memory from all NUMA nodes. (At least this is the case on the two platforms > I tested). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> There are two proposals to use memory structures from SPL/BLx up > to the handover function (as defined in the Device Tree technical report) > which can be U-boot (BL33 or just U-Boot in case of SPL/U-Boot scheme) or > EDK2. > > >> > > >> I would propose we also discuss possibility of FF-A interface to > actually query information or request actions to be done (this is a model > actually used in some SoCs with proprietary SMC calls). > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Requirements (to be validated): > > >> > > >> - ACPI and DT hardware descriptions. > > >> > > >> - agnostic to boot framework (SPL/U-Boot, TF-A/U-Boot, TF-A/EDK2) > > >> > > >> - agnostic to boot framework (SPL/U-Boot, TF-A/U-Boot, > TF-A/EDK2, TF-A/LinuxBoot) > > >> > > >> - at least allows complete DRAM description and "persistent" > usage (reserved areas for secure world or other usages) > > >> > > >> - support secure world device assignment > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> FF > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 19:56, Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> > wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> Can I suggest using bloblist for this instead? It is lightweight, > > >> easier to parse, doesn't have GUIDs and is already used within > U-Boot > > >> for passing info between SPL/U-Boot, etc. > > >> > > >> Docs here: > https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/doc/README.bloblist > > >> Header file describes the format: > > >> https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/include/bloblist.h > > >> > > >> Full set of unit tests: > > >> https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/test/bloblist.c > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Simon > > >> > > >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 23:58, François Ozog < > francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > +Boot Architecture Mailman List < > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org> > > >> > > > >> > standardization is very much welcomed here and need to > accommodate a very > > >> > diverse set of situations. > > >> > For example, TEE OS may need to pass memory reservations to > BL33 or > > >> > "capture" a device for the secure world. > > >> > > > >> > I have observed a number of architectures: > > >> > 1) pass information from BLx to BLy in the form of a specific > object > > >> > 2) BLx called by BLy by a platform specific SMC to get > information > > >> > 3) BLx called by BLy by a platform specific SMC to perform > Device Tree > > >> > fixups > > >> > > > >> > I also imagined a standardized "broadcast" FF-A call so that > any firmware > > >> > element can either provide information or "do something". > > >> > > > >> > My understanding of your proposal is about standardizing on > architecture 1) > > >> > with the HOB format. > > >> > > > >> > The advantage of the HOB is simplicity but it may be difficult > to implement > > >> > schemes such as pruning a DT because device assignment in the > secure world. > > >> > > > >> > In any case, it looks feasible to have TF-A and OP-TEE > complement the list > > >> > of HOBs to pass information downstream (the bootflow). > > >> > > > >> > It would be good to start with building the comprehensive list > of > > >> > information that need to be conveyed between firmware elements: > > >> > > > >> > information. | authoritative entity | reporting entity | > information > > >> > exchanged: > > >> > dram | TFA | TFA > | > > >> > <format to be detailed, NUMA topology to build the SRAT table > or DT > > >> > equivalent?> > > >> > PSCI | SCP | TFA? > | > > >> > SCMI | SCP or TEE-OS | TFA? TEE-OS?| > > >> > secure SRAM | TFA. | TFA. > | > > >> > secure DRAM | TFA? TEE-OS? | TFA? TEE-OS? | > > >> > other? | | > > >> > | > > >> > > > >> > Cheers > > >> > > > >> > FF > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 09:34, Harb Abdulhamid OS via TF-A < > > >> > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hello Folks, > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > I'm emailing to start an open discussion about the adoption > of a concept > > >> > > known as "hand-off blocks" or HOB to become a part of the > TF-A Firmware > > >> > > Framework Architecture (FFA). This is something that is a > pretty major > > >> > > pain point when it comes to the adoption of TF-A in ARM > Server SoC’s > > >> > > designed to enable a broad range of highly configurable > datacenter > > >> > > platforms. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > What is a HOB (Background)? > > >> > > > > >> > > --------------------------- > > >> > > > > >> > > UEFI PI spec describes a particular definition for how HOB > may be used for > > >> > > transitioning between the PEI and DXE boot phases, which is > a good > > >> > > reference point for this discussion, but not necessarily the > exact solution > > >> > > appropriate for TF-A. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > A HOB is simply a dynamically generated data structure > passed in between > > >> > > two boot phases. This is information that was obtained > through discovery > > >> > > and needs to be passed forward to the next boot phase > *once*, with no API > > >> > > needed to call back (e.g. no call back into previous > firmware phase is > > >> > > needed to fetch this information at run-time - it is simply > passed one time > > >> > > during boot). > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > There may be one or more HOBs passed in between boot > phases. If there are > > >> > > more than one HOB that needs to be passed, this can be in a > form of a "HOB > > >> > > table", which (for example) could be a UUID indexed array of > pointers to > > >> > > HOB structures, used to locate a HOB of interest (based on > UUID). In such > > >> > > cases, instead of passing a single HOB, the boot phases may > rely on passing > > >> > > the pointer to the HOB table. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > This has been extremely useful concept to employ on highly > configurable > > >> > > systems that must rely on flexible discovery mechanisms to > initialize and > > >> > > boot the system. This is especially helpful when you have > multiple > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Why do we need HOBs in TF-A?: > > >> > > > > >> > > ----------------------------- > > >> > > > > >> > > It is desirable that EL3 firmware (e.g. TF-A) built for ARM > Server SoC in > > >> > > a way that is SoC specific *but* platform agnostic. This > means that a > > >> > > single ARM SoC that a SiP may deliver to customers may > provide a single > > >> > > TF-A binary (e.g. BL1, BL2, BL31) that could be used to > support a broad > > >> > > range of platform designs and configurations in order to > boot a platform > > >> > > specific firmware (e.g. BL33 and possibly even BL32 code). > In order to > > >> > > achieve this, the platform configuration must be > *discovered* instead of > > >> > > statically compiled as it is today in TF-A via device tree > based > > >> > > enumeration. The mechanisms of discovery may differ broadly > depending on > > >> > > the relevant industry standard, or in some cases may have > rely on SiP > > >> > > specific discovery flows. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > For example: On server systems that support a broad range > DIMM memory > > >> > > population/topologies, all the necessary information > required to boot is > > >> > > fully discovered via standard JEDEC Serial Presence Detect > (SPD) over an > > >> > > I2C bus. Leveraging the SPD bus, may platform variants > could be supported > > >> > > with a single TF-A binary. Not only is this information > required to > > >> > > initialize memory in early boot phases (e.g. BL2), the > subsequent boot > > >> > > phases will also need this SPD info to construct a system > physical address > > >> > > map and properly initialize the MMU based on the memory > present, and where > > >> > > the memory may be present. Subsequent boot phases (e.g. > BL33 / UEFI) may > > >> > > need to generate standard firmware tables to the operating > systems, such as > > >> > > SMBIOS tables describing DIMM topology and various ACPI > tables (e.g. SLIT, > > >> > > SRAT, even NFIT if NVDIMM's are present). > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > In short, it all starts with a standardized or vendor > specific discovery > > >> > > flow in an early boot stage (e.g. BL1/BL2), followed by the > passing of > > >> > > information to the next boot stages (e.g. BL31/BL32/BL33). > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Today, every HOB may be a vendor specific structure, but in > the future > > >> > > there may be benefit of defining standard HOBs. This may be > useful for > > >> > > memory discovery, passing the system physical address map, > enabling TPM > > >> > > measured boot, and potentially many other common HOB > use-cases. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > It would be extremely beneficial to the datacenter market > segment if the > > >> > > TF-A community would adopt this concept of information > passing between all > > >> > > boot phases as opposed to rely solely on device tree > enumeration. This is > > >> > > not intended to replace device tree, rather intended as an > alternative way > > >> > > to describe the info that must be discovered and dynamically > generated. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Conclusion: > > >> > > > > >> > > ----------- > > >> > > > > >> > > We are proposing that the TF-A community begin pursuing the > adoption of > > >> > > HOBs as a mechanism used for information exchange between > each boot stage > > >> > > (e.g. BL1->BL2, BL2->BL31, BL31->BL32, and BL31->BL33)? > Longer term we > > >> > > want to explore standardizing some HOB structures for the > BL33 phase (e.g. > > >> > > UEFI HOB structures), but initially would like to agree on > this being a > > >> > > useful mechanism used to pass information between each boot > stage. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > >> > > --Harb > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > TF-A mailing list > > >> > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing > Group* > > >> > T: +33.67221.6485 > > >> > francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > boot-architecture mailing list > > >> > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org > > >> > https://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/boot-architecture > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing > Group > > >> > > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> TF-A mailing list > > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing > Group > > >> > > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> TF-A mailing list > > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > >> > > >> -- > > >> TF-A mailing list > > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing > Group > > >> > > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > TF-A mailing list > > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > -- > > TF-A mailing list > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > > > > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group* T: +33.67221.6485 francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog

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Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages

by Jeremy Linton

On 5/18/21 8:59 PM, Madhukar Pappireddy via TF-A wrote: > Hi, > > I tried to summarize the discussions in the previous TF-A tech forum regarding the proposal to adopt Hand-off Blocks (HOBs) for passing information along the boot chain. I am certain I could not capture all suggestions/concerns brought up during the call. I apologize if I missed and/or misinterpreted any comments and would appreciate it if everyone could share their thoughts in response to this email thread. > > The idea is to share information to other boot phases: >> Dynamic information: Created during runtime. Shared in the form of a chain of blobs(built as a linked list of C structure objects i.e., HOB list). >> Static information: Known at compile time. Historically, shared through the use of Device Tree/ACPI tables > > Both the above requirements are common in many ecosystems and need to co-exist. > > There are broadly 3 problems to solve: > 1. Format of HOB structures: It looks like the consensus is that we could use existing mechanisms for this (BL_AUX_PARAM in TF-A or bloblist in u-boot). > 2. Identification of HOB list entries: There is a debate about whether tags would suffice or if the HOB list producer and consumer would depend on UUID/GUIDs for identifying a specific HOB structure. Another suggestion was to use a hybrid approach. Reserve a single tag ID for identifying/constructing a HOB structure that further leverages UUID based identifier. This way, the generic HOB list doesn't need to support UUIDs and can work with tags. > 3. The design contract for the static interface between two boot phases: The problem at hand is whether to pass a pointer to a HOB list or a device tree blob through the general-purpose registers for configuration hand-off between two boot phases. Some proposals that came up: > > Proposal 1: Always pass a pointer to the device tree blob through the GP register and capture the pointer to the HOB list as a property of a node that is uniquely identifiable by the downstream boot phase. This needs to define a device tree binding such that producer and consumer agree on the information passed. Using DT to pass platform info at this level is sort of crazy on an ACPI machine which won't have native DTs. Meaning there is an additional level of unnecessary indirection that needs to be converted back into a format which can be utilized by AML and other parts of the ACPI stack. Its also helpful to look at what has become of the rpi4 uefi port, where the DT is actually dynamic (or provided by the user, complete with HAT overlays) and fed into the lower level firmware and propagated up through the system. The result has frequently been subtle bugs or boot failures because the DT provided by the rpi foundation as part of their low level firwmare+kernel stack is modified by their low level firwmare, and it differs from the DT in mainline linux. So more than once we have discovered that there isn't a single DT that can be boot both the current firmware and a current mainline linux. In the past there was even an option to use one DT for the firmware and an entirely seperate one for linux, but that was removed when it bacame apparent you couldn't have the lower level firmwaer say modifying MMIO windows for the PCIe subsystem and not propogate that into the other user supplied DT. At this point the uefi firmware on the rpi will provide a DT if asked, but it doesn't parse it nor does anything in the AML. Instead everything is done directly against the hardware, even when the HW registers aren't well documented.That is in large parts because the AML requirements are a lot different than what is provided in the DT. > > Proposal 2: Pass a pointer to a generic container through the GP register that can be interpreted appropriately by both boot loaders(i.e., producer and consumer of the boot info). This container can either be a dtb or a HOB list which can be simply inferred by checking for a magic header that indicates if the buffer appears to be a flattened device tree. > > One another concern that was brought up offline is to make sure we don't break current design contracts between various boot loader phases in TF-A. Many of the general-purpose registers have a designated purpose such as to share configurations between BL images( such as firmware config dtb, SoC config dtb, Non trusted firmware config dtb, memory layout, entry point info, etc.). > > If I am not mistaken, a single design may not fit the needs of every segment(client, Infra, embedded) and the forum is open to solutions tailored for individual segments. Joanna will be sending a follow up email with more information about future TF-A tech forums that serves as a platform for further discussions. > > Thanks, > Madhukar > > -----Original Message----- > From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> On Behalf Of Joanna Farley via TF-A > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 5:19 AM > To: Okash Khawaja <okash.khawaja(a)gmail.com>; Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> > Cc: Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org; Ed Stuber <edstuber(a)amperecomputing.com>; Arjun Khare <akhare(a)amperecomputing.com>; U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com>; Moe Ammar <moe(a)amperecomputing.com> > Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > > Apologies I failed with the recording. Manish/Madhu will reply early next week with the slides and some notes to help with a follow up session which we hope to hold this Thursday. Invite and agenda will also be sent out early next week. > > Thanks > > Joanna > > On 14/05/2021, 13:30, "TF-A on behalf of Okash Khawaja via TF-A" <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org on behalf of tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > Hi, > > Do we have slides and video from last week's discussion? > > Thanks, > Okash > > > On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 11:52 PM Simon Glass via TF-A > <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Harb, > > > > Thanks for the idea. I am still not completely sure what benefit UUID provides to an open project. I'd like to propose something different, more in the spirit of open collaboration. I also worry that the word 'standard' seems to be a synonym for UUIDs, UEFI, etc., i.e. enabling/preferring closed-source firmware and the continued decline of open-source projects. It really should not be. > > > > So I suggest: Use simple integer IDs and reserve some area for 'private' use. If you want to collaborate across projects outside your company, you either need to allocate a 'public' ID or agree privately between the parties which private ID to use. > > > > This means that the default and easiest option is for collaboration and a public ID, with private ones (whose purpose may be secret) reserved just for private use. > > > > Regards, > > Simon > > > > On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:42, Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hey Folks, > >> > >> We wanted to put out a middle-ground proposal to help guide the discussion on the call tomorrow. > >> > >> > >> > >> A proposal that we have been discussing offline involves reserving a single tag ID for the purpose of construction UEFI PI HOB List structure, and that tag would be used to identify a HOB-specific structure that does leverage UUID based identifier. This will eliminate the burden of having to support UUID as the tag, and this enables projects that require UUID based identifiers for the broad range of HOB structures that need to be produced during the booting of the platform. Once we have a tag for a HOB list, this will enable various HOB producers that can add/extend the HOB list in TF-A code (or even pre-TF-A code), with a HOB consumer for that UUID/GUID on the other side (i.e. whatever the BL33 image is booting on that platform). > >> > >> > >> > >> Essentially, the idea is if someone would like to support HOB structures in a standard way using TF-A, they would wrap it up in a BL_AUX_PARAM/BLOB structure (whatever the group decides) and the way we identify the structure as a HOB list is with this new reserved tag. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hopefully that makes sense and less contentious. Look forward to discuss this further on the call. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> --Harb > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Manish Pandey2 <Manish.Pandey2(a)arm.com> > >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:14 AM > >> To: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Julius Werner <jwerner(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org; U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> > >> > >> Please find invite for next TF-A Tech Forum session to continue our discussions on HOB implementation, feel free to forward it to others. > >> > >> > >> > >> The next TF-A Tech Forum is scheduled for Thu 6th May 2021 16:00 – 17:00 (BST). > >> > >> > >> > >> Agenda: > >> > >> Discussion Session: Static and Dynamic Information Handling in TF-A > >> > >> Lead by Manish Pandey and Madhukar Pappireddy > >> > >> · There is ongoing mailing lists discussion[1] related with adopting a mechanism to pass information through boot stages. > >> > >> The requirement is two-fold: > >> > >> 1. Passing static information(config files) > >> > >> 2. Passing dynamic information (Hob list) > >> > >> In the upcoming TF-A tech forum, we can start with a discussion on dynamic information passing and if time permits, we can cover static information passing. The purpose of the call is to have an open discussion and continue the discussion from the trusted-substrate call[2] done earlier. We would like to understand the various requirements and possible ways to implement it in TF-A in a generalized way so that it can work with other Firmware projects. > >> > >> > >> > >> The two specific item which we would like to discuss are: > >> > >> 1. HOB format: TF-A/u-boot both has an existing bloblist implementation, which uses tag values. Question, can this be enhanced to use hybrid values(Tag and UUID) both? > >> > >> 2. Standardization on Physical register use to pass base of HoB data structure. > >> > >> References: > >> > >> [1] https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/pipermail/tf-a/2021-April/001069.html > >> > >> [2] https://linaro-org.zoom.us/rec/share/zjfHeMIumkJhirLCVQYTHR6ftaqyWvF_0klgQn… Passcode: IPn+5q% > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> > >> > >> Joanna > >> > >> > >> > >> You have been invited to the following event. > >> > >> TF-A Tech Forum > >> > >> When > >> > >> Every 2 weeks from 16:00 to 17:00 on Thursday United Kingdom Time > >> > >> Calendar > >> > >> tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> > >> Who > >> > >> • > >> > >> Bill Fletcher- creator > >> > >> • > >> > >> tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> > >> more details » > >> > >> > >> > >> We run an open technical forum call for anyone to participate and it is not restricted to Trusted Firmware project members. It will operate under the guidance of the TF TSC. > >> > >> > >> > >> Feel free to forward this invite to colleagues. Invites are via the TF-A mailing list and also published on the Trusted Firmware website. Details are here: https://www.trustedfirmware.org/meetings/tf-a-technical-forum/ > >> > >> > >> > >> Trusted Firmware is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. > >> > >> > >> > >> Join Zoom Meeting > >> > >> https://zoom.us/j/9159704974 > >> > >> > >> > >> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > >> > >> > >> > >> One tap mobile > >> > >> +16465588656,,9159704974# US (New York) > >> > >> +16699009128,,9159704974# US (San Jose) > >> > >> > >> > >> Dial by your location > >> > >> +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) > >> > >> +1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose) > >> > >> 877 853 5247 US Toll-free > >> > >> 888 788 0099 US Toll-free > >> > >> Meeting ID: 915 970 4974 > >> > >> Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/ad27hc6t7h > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> From: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > >> Sent: 08 April 2021 16:50 > >> To: Manish Pandey2 <Manish.Pandey2(a)arm.com> > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Julius Werner <jwerner(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> > >> > >> here is the meeting recording: > >> > >> https://linaro-org.zoom.us/rec/share/zjfHeMIumkJhirLCVQYTHR6ftaqyWvF_0klgQn… Passcode: IPn+5q%z > >> > >> > >> > >> I am really sorry about the confusion related to the meeting time. I have now understood: the Collaborate portal uses a specific calendar which is tied to US/Chicago timezone while the actual Google Calendar is tied to Central Europe timezone. I am going to drop the Collaborate portal and use a shared Google calendar (it should be visible on the trusted-substrate.org page). > >> > >> > >> > >> I'll try to summarize what I learnt and highlight my view on what can be next steps in a future mail. > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> FF > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 at 13:56, Manish Pandey2 via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> > >> From TF-A project point of view, we prefer to use existing mechanism to pass parameters across boot stages using linked list of tagged elements (as suggested by Julius). It has support for both generic and SiP-specific tags. Having said that, it does not stop partners to introduce new mechanisms suitable for their usecase in platform port initially and later move to generic code if its suitable for other platforms. > >> > >> > >> > >> To start with, Ampere can introduce a platform specific implementation of memory tag(speed/NUMA topology etc) which can be evaluated and discussed for generalization in future. The tag will be populated in BL2 stage and can be forwarded to further stages(and to BL33) by passing the head of list pointer in one of the registers. Initially any register can be used but going forward a standardization will be needed. > >> > >> > >> > >> The U-boot bloblist mentioned by Simon is conceptually similar to what TF-A is using, if there is consensus of using bloblist/taglist then TF-A tag list may be enhanced to take best of both the implementations. > >> > >> > >> > >> One of the potential problems of having structure used in different projects is maintainability, this can be avoided by having a single copy of these structures in TF-A (kept inside "include/export" which intended to be used by other projects.) > >> > >> > >> > >> Regarding usage of either UUID or tag, I echo the sentiments of Simon and Julius to keep it simple and use tag values. > >> > >> > >> > >> Looking forward to having further discussions on zoom call today. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Manish P > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> From: TF-A <tf-a-bounces(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> on behalf of Julius Werner via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> > >> Sent: 25 March 2021 02:43 > >> To: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> > >> Cc: Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org>; U-Boot Mailing List <u-boot(a)lists.denx.de>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com> > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> Just want to point out that TF-A currently already supports a (very simple) mechanism like this: > >> > >> > >> > >> https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > >> > >> https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > >> > >> https://review.trustedfirmware.org/plugins/gitiles/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/… > >> > >> > >> > >> It's just a linked list of tagged elements. The tag space is split into TF-A-wide generic tags and SiP-specific tags (with plenty of room to spare if more areas need to be defined -- a 64-bit tag can fit a lot). This is currently being used by some platforms that run coreboot in place of BL1/BL2, to pass information from coreboot (BL2) to BL31. > >> > >> > >> > >> I would echo Simon's sentiment of keeping this as simple as possible and avoiding complicated and bloated data structures with UUIDs. You usually want to parse something like this as early as possible in the passed-to firmware stage, particularly if the structure encodes information about the debug console (like it does for the platforms I mentioned above). For example, in BL31 this basically means doing it right after moving from assembly to C in bl31_early_platform_setup2() to get the console up before running anything else. At that point in the BL31 initialization, the MMU and caches are disabled, so data accesses are pretty expensive and you don't want to spend a lot of parsing effort or calculate complicated checksums or the like. You just want something extremely simple where you ideally have to touch every data word only once. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:06 PM Simon Glass via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Harb, > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 11:39, Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hello Folks, > >> > >> Appreciate the feedback and replies on this. Glad to see that there is interest in this topic. > >> > >> > >> > >> I try to address the comments/feedback from Francois and Simon below…. > >> > >> > >> > >> @François Ozog – happy to discuss this on a zoom call. I will make that time slot work, and will be available to attend April 8, 4pm CT. > >> > >> > >> > >> Note that I’m using the term “HOB” here more generically, as there are typically vendor specific structures beyond the resource descriptor HOB, which provides only a small subset of the information that needs to be passed between the boot phases. > >> > >> > >> > >> The whole point here is to provide mechanism to develop firmware that we can build ARM Server SoC’s that support *any* BL33 payload (e.g. EDK2, AptioV, CoreBoot, and maybe even directly boot strapping LinuxBoot at some point). In other-words, we are trying to come up with a TF-A that would be completely agnostic to the implementation of BL33 (i.e. BL33 is built completely independently by a separate entity – e.g. an ODM/OEM). > >> > >> > >> > >> Keep in mind, in the server/datacenter market segment we are not building vertically integrated systems with a single entity compiling firmware/software stacks like most folks in TF-A have become use to. There are two categories of higher level firmware code blobs in the server/datacenter model: > >> > >> “SoC” or “silicon” firmware – in TF-A this may map to BL1, BL2, BL31, and *possibly* one or more BL32 instances > >> “Platform” or “board” firmware – in TF-A this may map to BL33 and *possibly* one or more BL32 instances. > >> > >> > >> > >> Even the platform firmware stack could be further fragmented by having multiple entities involved in delivering the entire firmware stack: IBVs, ODMs, OEMs, CSPs, and possibly even device vendor code. > >> > >> > >> > >> To support a broad range of platform designs with a broad range of memory devices, we need a crisp and clear contract between the SoC firmware that initializes memory (e.g. BL2) and how that platform boot firmware (e.g. BL33) gathers information about what memory that was initialized, at what speeds, NUMA topology, and many other relevant information that needs to be known and comprehended by the platform firmware and eventually by the platform software. > >> > >> > >> > >> I understand the versatility of DT, but I see two major problems with DT: > >> > >> DT requires more complicated parsing to get properties, and even more complex to dynamically set properties – this HOB structures may need to be generated in boot phases where DDR is not available, and therefore we will be extremely memory constrained. > >> DT is probably overkill for this purpose – We really just want a list of pointers to simple C structures that code cast (e.g. JEDEC SPD data blob) > >> > >> > >> > >> I think that we should not mix the efforts around DT/ACPI specs with what we are doing here, because those specs and concepts were developed for a completely different purpose (i.e. abstractions needed for OS / RTOS software, and not necessarily suitable for firmware-to-firmware hand-offs). > >> > >> > >> > >> Frankly, I would personally push back pretty hard on defining SMC’s for something that should be one way information passing. Every SMC we add is another attack vector to the secure world and an increased burden on the folks that have to do security auditing and threat analysis. I see no benefit in exposing these boot/HOB/BOB structures at run-time via SMC calls. > >> > >> > >> > >> Please do let me know if you disagree and why. Look forward to discussing on this thread or on the call. > >> > >> > >> > >> @Simon Glass - Thanks for the pointer to bloblist. I briefly reviewed and it seems like a good baseline for what we may be looking for. > >> > >> > >> > >> That being said, I would say that there is some benefit in having some kind of unique identifiers (e.g. UUID or some unique signature) so that we can tie standardized data structures (based on some future TBD specs) to a particular ID. For example, if the TPM driver in BL33 is looking for the TPM structure in the HOB/BOB list, and may not care about the other data blobs. The driver needs a way to identify and locate the blob it cares about. > >> > >> > >> > >> The tag is intended to serve that purpose, although perhaps it should switch from an auto-allocating enum to one with explicit values for each entry and a range for 'local' use. > >> > >> > >> > >> I guess we can achieve this with the tag, but the problem with tag when you have eco-system with a lot of parties doing parallel development, you can end up with tag collisions and folks fighting about who has rights to what tag values. We would need some official process for folks to register tags for whatever new structures we define, or maybe some tag range for vendor specific structures. This comes with a lot of pain and bureaucracy. On the other hand, UUID has been a proven way to make it easy to just define your own blobs with *either* standard or vendor specific structures without worry of ID collisions between vendors. > >> > >> > >> > >> True. I think the pain is overstated, though. In this case I think we actually want something that can be shared between projects and orgs, so some amount of coordination could be considered a benefit. It could just be a github pull request. I find the UUID unfriendly and not just to code size and eyesight! Trying to discover what GUIDs mean or are valid is quite tricky. E.g. see this code: > >> > >> > >> > >> #define FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_TSEG_GUID \ > >> EFI_GUID(0xd038747c, 0xd00c, 0x4980, \ > >> 0xb3, 0x19, 0x49, 0x01, 0x99, 0xa4, 0x7d, 0x55) > >> > >> (etc.) > >> > >> > >> > >> static struct guid_name { > >> efi_guid_t guid; > >> const char *name; > >> } guid_name[] = { > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_TSEG_GUID, "TSEG" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_FSP_GUID, "FSP" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_SMM_PEI_SMRAM_GUID, "SMM PEI SMRAM" }, > >> { FSP_NON_VOLATILE_STORAGE_HOB_GUID, "NVS" }, > >> { FSP_VARIABLE_NV_DATA_HOB_GUID, "Variable NVS" }, > >> { FSP_GRAPHICS_INFO_HOB_GUID, "Graphics info" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PCD_DATABASE_GUID1, "PCD database ea" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PCD_DATABASE_GUID2, "PCD database 9b" }, > >> > >> (never figured out what those two are) > >> > >> > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_PEIM_DXE_GUID, "PEIM Init DXE" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_ALLOC_STACK_GUID, "Alloc stack" }, > >> { FSP_HOB_RESOURCE_OWNER_SMBIOS_MEMORY_GUID, "SMBIOS memory" }, > >> { {}, "zero-guid" }, > >> {} > >> }; > >> > >> static const char *guid_to_name(const efi_guid_t *guid) > >> { > >> struct guid_name *entry; > >> > >> for (entry = guid_name; entry->name; entry++) { > >> if (!guidcmp(guid, &entry->guid)) > >> return entry->name; > >> } > >> > >> return NULL; > >> } > >> > >> > >> > >> Believe it or not it took a fair bit of effort to find just that small list, with nearly every one in a separate doc, from memory. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> We can probably debate whether there is any value in GUID/UUID or not during the call… but again, boblist seems like a reasonable starting point as an alternative to HOB. > >> > >> > >> > >> Indeed. There is certainly value in both approaches. > >> > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Simon > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> --Harb > >> > >> > >> > >> From: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 10:00 AM > >> To: François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org>; Ron Minnich <rminnich(a)google.com>; Paul Isaac's <paul.isaacs(a)linaro.org> > >> Cc: Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org>; Harb Abdulhamid OS <abdulhamid(a)os.amperecomputing.com>; Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org>; tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> Subject: Re: [TF-A] Proposal: TF-A to adopt hand-off blocks (HOBs) for information passing between boot stages > >> > >> > >> > >> +Ron Minnich +Paul Isaac's > >> > >> > >> > >> Adding Ron and Paul because I think this interface should be also benefiting LinuxBoot efforts. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 11:17, François Ozog via TF-A <tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> > >> I propose we cover the topic at the next Trusted Substrate zoom call on April 8th 4pm CET. > >> > >> > >> > >> The agenda: > >> > >> ABI between non-secure firmware and the rest of firmware (EL3, S-EL1, S-EL2, SCP) to adapt hardware description to some runtime conditions. > >> > >> runtime conditions here relates to DRAM size and topology detection, secure DRAM memory carvings, PSCI and SCMI interface publishing. > >> > >> > >> > >> For additional background on existing metadata: UEFI Platform Initialization Specification Version 1.7, 5.5 Resource Descriptor HOB > >> > >> Out of the ResourceType we care about is EFI_RESOURCE_SYSTEM_MEMORY. > >> > >> This HOB lacks memory NUMA attachment or something that could be related to fill SRAT table for ACPI or relevant DT proximity domains. > >> > >> HOB is not consistent accros platforms: some platforms (Arm) lists memory from the booting NUMA node, other platforms (x86) lists all memory from all NUMA nodes. (At least this is the case on the two platforms I tested). > >> > >> > >> > >> There are two proposals to use memory structures from SPL/BLx up to the handover function (as defined in the Device Tree technical report) which can be U-boot (BL33 or just U-Boot in case of SPL/U-Boot scheme) or EDK2. > >> > >> I would propose we also discuss possibility of FF-A interface to actually query information or request actions to be done (this is a model actually used in some SoCs with proprietary SMC calls). > >> > >> > >> > >> Requirements (to be validated): > >> > >> - ACPI and DT hardware descriptions. > >> > >> - agnostic to boot framework (SPL/U-Boot, TF-A/U-Boot, TF-A/EDK2) > >> > >> - agnostic to boot framework (SPL/U-Boot, TF-A/U-Boot, TF-A/EDK2, TF-A/LinuxBoot) > >> > >> - at least allows complete DRAM description and "persistent" usage (reserved areas for secure world or other usages) > >> > >> - support secure world device assignment > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> FF > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 19:56, Simon Glass <sjg(a)chromium.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Can I suggest using bloblist for this instead? It is lightweight, > >> easier to parse, doesn't have GUIDs and is already used within U-Boot > >> for passing info between SPL/U-Boot, etc. > >> > >> Docs here: https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/doc/README.bloblist > >> Header file describes the format: > >> https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/include/bloblist.h > >> > >> Full set of unit tests: > >> https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/test/bloblist.c > >> > >> Regards, > >> Simon > >> > >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 23:58, François Ozog <francois.ozog(a)linaro.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > +Boot Architecture Mailman List <boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org> > >> > > >> > standardization is very much welcomed here and need to accommodate a very > >> > diverse set of situations. > >> > For example, TEE OS may need to pass memory reservations to BL33 or > >> > "capture" a device for the secure world. > >> > > >> > I have observed a number of architectures: > >> > 1) pass information from BLx to BLy in the form of a specific object > >> > 2) BLx called by BLy by a platform specific SMC to get information > >> > 3) BLx called by BLy by a platform specific SMC to perform Device Tree > >> > fixups > >> > > >> > I also imagined a standardized "broadcast" FF-A call so that any firmware > >> > element can either provide information or "do something". > >> > > >> > My understanding of your proposal is about standardizing on architecture 1) > >> > with the HOB format. > >> > > >> > The advantage of the HOB is simplicity but it may be difficult to implement > >> > schemes such as pruning a DT because device assignment in the secure world. > >> > > >> > In any case, it looks feasible to have TF-A and OP-TEE complement the list > >> > of HOBs to pass information downstream (the bootflow). > >> > > >> > It would be good to start with building the comprehensive list of > >> > information that need to be conveyed between firmware elements: > >> > > >> > information. | authoritative entity | reporting entity | information > >> > exchanged: > >> > dram | TFA | TFA | > >> > <format to be detailed, NUMA topology to build the SRAT table or DT > >> > equivalent?> > >> > PSCI | SCP | TFA? | > >> > SCMI | SCP or TEE-OS | TFA? TEE-OS?| > >> > secure SRAM | TFA. | TFA. | > >> > secure DRAM | TFA? TEE-OS? | TFA? TEE-OS? | > >> > other? | | > >> > | > >> > > >> > Cheers > >> > > >> > FF > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 09:34, Harb Abdulhamid OS via TF-A < > >> > tf-a(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hello Folks, > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > I'm emailing to start an open discussion about the adoption of a concept > >> > > known as "hand-off blocks" or HOB to become a part of the TF-A Firmware > >> > > Framework Architecture (FFA). This is something that is a pretty major > >> > > pain point when it comes to the adoption of TF-A in ARM Server SoC’s > >> > > designed to enable a broad range of highly configurable datacenter > >> > > platforms. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > What is a HOB (Background)? > >> > > > >> > > --------------------------- > >> > > > >> > > UEFI PI spec describes a particular definition for how HOB may be used for > >> > > transitioning between the PEI and DXE boot phases, which is a good > >> > > reference point for this discussion, but not necessarily the exact solution > >> > > appropriate for TF-A. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > A HOB is simply a dynamically generated data structure passed in between > >> > > two boot phases. This is information that was obtained through discovery > >> > > and needs to be passed forward to the next boot phase *once*, with no API > >> > > needed to call back (e.g. no call back into previous firmware phase is > >> > > needed to fetch this information at run-time - it is simply passed one time > >> > > during boot). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > There may be one or more HOBs passed in between boot phases. If there are > >> > > more than one HOB that needs to be passed, this can be in a form of a "HOB > >> > > table", which (for example) could be a UUID indexed array of pointers to > >> > > HOB structures, used to locate a HOB of interest (based on UUID). In such > >> > > cases, instead of passing a single HOB, the boot phases may rely on passing > >> > > the pointer to the HOB table. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > This has been extremely useful concept to employ on highly configurable > >> > > systems that must rely on flexible discovery mechanisms to initialize and > >> > > boot the system. This is especially helpful when you have multiple > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Why do we need HOBs in TF-A?: > >> > > > >> > > ----------------------------- > >> > > > >> > > It is desirable that EL3 firmware (e.g. TF-A) built for ARM Server SoC in > >> > > a way that is SoC specific *but* platform agnostic. This means that a > >> > > single ARM SoC that a SiP may deliver to customers may provide a single > >> > > TF-A binary (e.g. BL1, BL2, BL31) that could be used to support a broad > >> > > range of platform designs and configurations in order to boot a platform > >> > > specific firmware (e.g. BL33 and possibly even BL32 code). In order to > >> > > achieve this, the platform configuration must be *discovered* instead of > >> > > statically compiled as it is today in TF-A via device tree based > >> > > enumeration. The mechanisms of discovery may differ broadly depending on > >> > > the relevant industry standard, or in some cases may have rely on SiP > >> > > specific discovery flows. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > For example: On server systems that support a broad range DIMM memory > >> > > population/topologies, all the necessary information required to boot is > >> > > fully discovered via standard JEDEC Serial Presence Detect (SPD) over an > >> > > I2C bus. Leveraging the SPD bus, may platform variants could be supported > >> > > with a single TF-A binary. Not only is this information required to > >> > > initialize memory in early boot phases (e.g. BL2), the subsequent boot > >> > > phases will also need this SPD info to construct a system physical address > >> > > map and properly initialize the MMU based on the memory present, and where > >> > > the memory may be present. Subsequent boot phases (e.g. BL33 / UEFI) may > >> > > need to generate standard firmware tables to the operating systems, such as > >> > > SMBIOS tables describing DIMM topology and various ACPI tables (e.g. SLIT, > >> > > SRAT, even NFIT if NVDIMM's are present). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > In short, it all starts with a standardized or vendor specific discovery > >> > > flow in an early boot stage (e.g. BL1/BL2), followed by the passing of > >> > > information to the next boot stages (e.g. BL31/BL32/BL33). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Today, every HOB may be a vendor specific structure, but in the future > >> > > there may be benefit of defining standard HOBs. This may be useful for > >> > > memory discovery, passing the system physical address map, enabling TPM > >> > > measured boot, and potentially many other common HOB use-cases. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > It would be extremely beneficial to the datacenter market segment if the > >> > > TF-A community would adopt this concept of information passing between all > >> > > boot phases as opposed to rely solely on device tree enumeration. This is > >> > > not intended to replace device tree, rather intended as an alternative way > >> > > to describe the info that must be discovered and dynamically generated. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Conclusion: > >> > > > >> > > ----------- > >> > > > >> > > We are proposing that the TF-A community begin pursuing the adoption of > >> > > HOBs as a mechanism used for information exchange between each boot stage > >> > > (e.g. BL1->BL2, BL2->BL31, BL31->BL32, and BL31->BL33)? Longer term we > >> > > want to explore standardizing some HOB structures for the BL33 phase (e.g. > >> > > UEFI HOB structures), but initially would like to agree on this being a > >> > > useful mechanism used to pass information between each boot stage. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >> > > > >> > > --Harb > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > TF-A mailing list > >> > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > François-Frédéric Ozog | *Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group* > >> > T: +33.67221.6485 > >> > francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > boot-architecture mailing list > >> > boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org > >> > https://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/boot-architecture > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group > >> > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> TF-A mailing list > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group > >> > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> TF-A mailing list > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > >> -- > >> TF-A mailing list > >> TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > >> https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> François-Frédéric Ozog | Director Linaro Edge & Fog Computing Group > >> > >> T: +33.67221.6485 > >> francois.ozog(a)linaro.org | Skype: ffozog > >> > >> > > > > -- > > TF-A mailing list > > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a > -- > TF-A mailing list > TF-A(a)lists.trustedfirmware.org > https://lists.trustedfirmware.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-a >

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